still reciting the old translatiion - obnoxiously loud at mass - Page 5

Miriam1947 · #61 May 2, '12, 6:43 pm

This is where the mistakes are made in our Mass often.

Sanctus

Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes
in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.
Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes
in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.

Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes
in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.

That first line is a problem because no one seems to have noticed that the comma is gone. And when that pause is put in everyone goes back to the old version.

I swear I am going to talk to my priest about it. I know the new version but, he keeps putting that pause in there. As do all the other priests who come and say Mass in our parish.

It's the same as starting and also with oops you instead of with your spirit.

**ProVobis** · #62 May 2, '12, 7:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

I was once told by an English professor that when speaking anything in public, say it loud and say it proud, even when its a mistake.

My English teachers and professors seemed to me to be the most arrogant of teachers. Yet, in spite of my feelings for them, I was still presented with an Excellence in English award in high school. I just hope their arrogance didn't rub off on me.

PatriceA · #63 May 2, '12, 8:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProVobis

My English teachers and professors seemed to me to be the most arrogant of teachers. Yet, in spite of my feelings for them, I was still presented with an Excellence in English award in high school. I just hope their arrogance didn't rub off on me.

How is it arrogant to have own your mistakes out loud instead of mumbling them?

My most arrogant professors were the philosophy ones.

**pnewton** · #64 May 2, '12, 9:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by agnes therese

I apologize. I didn't realize that you have direct, personal knowledge of this couple. And I seriously resent your charge of "hypocrisy."

More to the point, the charge of hypocrisy doesn't even make any sense in this context, it the poster actually knows what the word means.

It is not hypocrisy or some special pleading (whatever that means) but rather church teaching. It is not posing as charity, but an exercise of charity, to assume the best in the actions of others. We too have some who are loud and wrong. Sorry kids, but six months isn't really all that long for those of us who have been around. Mistakes will happen and a little tolerance and understanding would be appreciated.

Now let us look at the down side. Let us say we assume the best in these folks but are mistaken. So what? It is not like they will forment a rebellion and in the end unseat the Pope. All that will happen, as happens with us all when we goof up, is that we look foolish. There is no downside to being wrong if we assume the best in charity. There is a downside to being wrong if we assume the worst without charity.

**ProVobis** · #65 May 2, '12, 9:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

How is it arrogant to have own your mistakes out loud instead of mumbling them?

Mistakes have nothing to do with it, loud or quiet. According to one definition arrogance is "overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors." As Polish was my first language I felt very inferior in English classes. In fact, I dreaded them. Having to memorize all that Shakespeare and Chaucer stuff was the absolute pits for me. But I hung in there if only to be able to teach my parents enough English so that we could become citizens and I could enter the state university. They seem to frown on anyone who doesn't speak English in the U.S. as you know. And now after reading some of the posts here, I feel they want to kick those out who don't make the necessary English responses in Church. To me that's arrogance and that's why I haven't been to an English Mass in a long time.

PatriceA · #66 May 3, '12, 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProVobis

Mistakes have nothing to do with it, loud or quiet. According to one definition arrogance is "overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors." As Polish was my first language I felt very inferior in English classes. In fact, I dreaded them. Having to memorize all that Shakespeare and Chaucer stuff was the absolute pits for me. But I hung in there if only to be able to teach my parents enough English so that we could become citizens and I could enter the state university. They seem to frown on anyone who doesn't speak English in the U.S. as you know. And now after reading some of the posts here, I feel they want to kick those out who don't make the necessary English responses in Church. To me that's arrogance and that's why I haven't been to an English Mass in a long time.

I agree with you that it is arrogant to think everyone has to say every response in English and also as the OP wants, to say everything absolutely correctly to their own satisfaction.

But that's not the point I was making. I'm saying that I was taught that when speaking in public, to speak with confidence, even if one is afraid its the wrong response or answer. That's not arrogance by my understanding. How people want to shame others for responding incorrectly, THAT is arrogance.

Mrs Sally · #67 May 3, '12, 6:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

More to the point, the charge of hypocrisy doesn't even make any sense in this context, it the poster actually knows what the word means.

It is not hypocrisy or some special pleading (whatever that means) but rather church teaching. It is not posing as charity, but an exercise of charity, to assume the best in the actions of others. We too have some who are loud and wrong. Sorry kids, but six months isn't really all that long for those of us who have been around. Mistakes will happen and a little tolerance and understanding would be appreciated.

Now let us look at the down side. Let us say we assume the best in these folks but are mistaken. So what? It is not like they will forment a rebellion and in the end unseat the Pope. All that will happen, as happens with us all when we goof up, is that we look foolish. There is no downside to being wrong if we assume the best in charity. There is a downside to being wrong if we assume the worst without charity.

Excellent answer and something we should all keep in mind.

theology101 · #68 May 3, '12, 11:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by agnes therese

Of course, no one has ever misinterpreted a "look."

Unless this person tells someone he is doing it to be rebellious, we don't know that. No one has yet confirmed that he's not hard of hearing and being loud for that reason.

He might be just giving a look that says, "Why on earth does this weirdo keep turning around and looking at us funny?"

bscastro · #69 May 4, '12, 12:01 am

Very interesting thread.

A couple months ago, a friend who often attends the same Mass time on Sunday with me said one day sort of annoyed, "Why'd they have to change it up anyway?"

I tried to explain to the best of my knowledge why and she thought for a moment and nodded, saying, "Oh, I think that makes sense. Okay." And since then has tried her best to follow.

Other than getting used to it, it hasn't been a problem in my parish or other churches I have attended in my diocese.

God bless,
Bryan

Pitcharan · #70 May 4, '12, 12:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric_Olsen

pew cards are there. they just out right refused to follow them.

What about those who publish the old translation as new and then go on to impose / implement it as a strict rule. It is happening right now in the Archdiocese of Bangalore and the publisher is St. Pauls.

**ProVobis** · #71 May 4, '12, 5:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

But that's not the point I was making. I'm saying that I was taught that when speaking in public, to speak with confidence, even if one is afraid its the wrong response or answer. That's not arrogance by my understanding. How people want to shame others for responding incorrectly, THAT is arrogance.

When everyone is expected to respond, you will not always get everyone in unison. That's just the way things were when people were asked to sing or respond along. And that's the way it's going to be. Some say "The Lord is with Thee" and some say "The Lord is with You." I can go to a baseball game and hear them singing different words to the Take Me Out to the Ballgame. And they all claim to be right, even after you show them the official words to the song. (Or pew cards, for that matter.) There will be plenty who get irritated because of it, some to the point (like me) who try to avoid those situations altogether by turning off the radio or leaving before the 7th inning stretch.

As far as real mistakes go, like fumbling a football or mixing up the Creeds, no one is supposed to teach that. However, teachers or coaches should teach how to recover from mistakes because everyone makes mistakes. Either that or try to teach more constructive ways of holding on to the ball or remembering which Creed is which. They shouldn't be teaching how to be making mistakes proudly. That would be poor education IMO.

meteoric · #72 May 4, '12, 6:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by garn9173

As we are about to enter the 6th month of using the new translation, IMO, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone to be using the old version. I don't care how old one person is, 6 months is more than enough time to adapt to the new translation.

I don't consider myself old (lower 50s) but I still haven't learned all the new responses by heart. I use the card, but at certain points, where we change from one activity to another (the beginning of the Eucharistic prayer, the "Lord I am not worthy...") I usually don't remember to grab the card.

I'm trying.

I'll get it eventually. I expect to be doing this for another 50 years :-)

Meanwhile, a funny story. A couple of months ago, during mass, our parish priest got completely confused during the mass, jumped way ahead at one point, went back to the correct place after he finished, and realized his error.

At the end of Mass he told us that he had spoken to the bishop just that week. The bishop said that some priests were having problems with the new translation, and asked the pastor if he had any. He answered that he did not. Then he said, "There's a lesson here...."

Tom A.

PatriceA · #73 May 4, '12, 6:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProVobis

When everyone is expected to respond, you will not always get everyone in unison. That's just the way things were when people were asked to sing or respond along. And that's the way it's going to be. Some say "The Lord is with Thee" and some say "The Lord is with You." I can go to a baseball game and hear them singing different words to the Take Me Out to the Ballgame. And they all claim to be right, even after you show them the official words to the song. (Or pew cards, for that matter.) There will be plenty who get irritated because of it, some to the point (like me) who try to avoid those situations altogether by turning off the radio or leaving before the 7th inning stretch.

As far as real mistakes go, like fumbling a football or mixing up the Creeds, no one is supposed to teach that. However, teachers or coaches should teach how to recover from mistakes because everyone makes mistakes. Either that or try to teach more constructive ways of holding on to the ball or remembering which Creed is which. They shouldn't be teaching how to be making mistakes proudly. That would be poor education IMO.

Either I'm not explaining it properly (more than likely) or you are totally missing my point. I didn't say my professors were actually teaching me to make mistakes. But they did teach me to "own" it when I did and not be wishy washy when speaking in public.

**ProVobis** · #74 May 4, '12, 10:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

Either I'm not explaining it properly (more than likely) or you are totally missing my point. I didn't say my professors were actually teaching me to make mistakes. But they did teach me to "own" it when I did and not be wishy washy when speaking in public.

Okay.

peace2u2 · #75 May 4, '12, 12:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric_Olsen

was at [edited] in Norristown PA. at the 5:30pm mass yesterday. There was a woman with her husband a couple of rows back who kept reciting the old translation, being loud about it to the point it almost drowned out the people around me.

Does anyone else experience imature people like this?

A lot of people have a problem with change. Pray for them and let the Holy Spirit move their hearts.

Personally, I love the new translation!