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  #16  
Old May 2, '12, 10:51 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Considering I am claustrophobic, I wouldn't be on that manned Mars mission in the first place, but assuming I was press-ganged into being on the ship, came to and realized I was trapped...I'd probably open the hatch within minutes.
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  #17  
Old May 2, '12, 12:29 pm
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Julia Mae Julia Mae is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

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Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien View Post
What work would one have to do while trapped what will become their coffin? What could the person accomplish or do for any one else?
I believe I already explained that. Google: Padre Pio for more info. Become educated on the power of prayer and the "exchange of spiritual goods." That life in isolation can be far more useful than any other life the person could lead and more rewarding.
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  #18  
Old May 2, '12, 1:21 pm
GEddie GEddie is online now
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

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Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I'd knock politely on the hatch, and call out, "Hello...oo...oo! Is there anybody out there?"

Seriously, this question reminds me of a comment my old pastor made about the effect of solitary confinement on tough, hardened criminals. He'd been a prison pastor for a while, and he was amazed at the disciplining effect it had. Most of them feared it.

This would be solitary confinement for years on end. I think there'd be a distinct chance of the person going mad, and thus losing moral responsibility regarding suicide.
There is an important distinction between solitary, as in alone, and sense deprivation. In the context of prison they usually go together, but IMNAAHO deprivation of the senses (as achieved by hoods, ear and nose plugs, or prison "holes") is harder on the mind than just being alone. Some people, ie, solo sailors, do quite well apart from others.

Wasn't there a Soviet cosmonaut who set a duration record, over a year, solo in one of their space stations? Although a lack of weight weakened his body, he seemed to take it well mentally.

ISTM that any mental distress would result from contemplation of one's impending death. But some saints have used just that to spiritual advantage, eg., Saint John of the Cross with a skull on his desk.

ICXC NIKA
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  #19  
Old May 2, '12, 2:53 pm
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SugarMagnolia SugarMagnolia is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

I don't think I could say that there's no hope for rescue. Even if present technology makes rescue impossible, technology is always being advanced. With a few years of food, I may live long enough for a rescue to be possible.

However, let's assume the chance of rescue is negligible. Further, let's assume I do not deceive myself about this fact. There are really two issues I have to deal with, not one. There are isolation and despair. These are not one and the same. (I think this is the point Julia Mae made about hermits.)

The isolation would be more difficult for some people than for others. Some people are just naturally more inclined to solitude. These people would probably suffer less from the isolation. Since this ship is a manned mission to Mars, I'm assuming it's equipped to provide sources of exercise, education, and entertainment (e.g. treadmill, books, movies, etc.).

Let's say I have a high tolerance for being alone. I keep myself busy. I write my memoirs. (Sooner or later someone's likely to salvage the ship.) I postpone my mental breakdown for a surprisingly long time.

The big question is: how do I avoid despair? If I'm physically and mentally healthy, if I have something with which to occupy the hours, how do I not despair that everything I do is for nothing? (Of course, I don't have to be lost in space to despair that everything I do is for nothing.)

But this question reveals another question behind it: What gives value to life?

Is it my relationship with people ?
Is it my relationship with God?
Is it my relationship with myself?

If it's solely my relationship with other people (e.g. contributing to society, enjoying their company), I'm least equipped to tolerate my situation because there are no other people for me to have a relationship with.*

If it's my relationship with God, I'm best equipped to tolerate the situation since my relationship with God is unaffected by my isolation (unless the absence of the sacraments endangers my soul. Does it? Someone please help out here.)

What if I don't believe in God? I suppose I might have a relationship with my Self instead of with God. But this doesn't strike me as a relationship that would save me from despair. I'm not prolonging my life for the good of other people. I'm not prolonging it in obedience to God. There doesn't seem to be any reason to prolong it more than I want to.

* Sneaky me--Earlier I said I would write my memoirs for future generations that salvage my ship.
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  #20  
Old May 2, '12, 5:12 pm
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I'd knock politely on the hatch, and call out, "Hello...oo...oo! Is there anybody out there?"

Seriously, this question reminds me of a comment my old pastor made about the effect of solitary confinement on tough, hardened criminals. He'd been a prison pastor for a while, and he was amazed at the disciplining effect it had. Most of them feared it.

This would be solitary confinement for years on end. I think there'd be a distinct chance of the person going mad, and thus losing moral responsibility regarding suicide.
As a prison Chaplain years ago I visited the old solitary confinement cells in the prison I was working in.

It was down in a basement, and was a narrow corridor with cells (6' by 8' with no bed, chair, table, toilet or washbasin) on one side.

I went into one and let the guards lock me in and shut out the light (as they used to for 23 hours a day), and then leave the corridor and close that door too.

It was horrendous. The sense of complete and utter powerlessness, and the crushing darkness and silence were terrible.

I was only there a few minutes but it was not an experience I would like to try again. The worse thing was the total lack of freedom, and the blanking of the senses of sound and sight, with nothing to feel or sit on.

Solitary now has lights, and windows.
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  #21  
Old May 3, '12, 4:56 am
Bob Crowley Bob Crowley is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
There is an important distinction between solitary, as in alone, and sense deprivation. In the context of prison they usually go together, but IMNAAHO deprivation of the senses (as achieved by hoods, ear and nose plugs, or prison "holes") is harder on the mind than just being alone. Some people, ie, solo sailors, do quite well apart from others.

Wasn't there a Soviet cosmonaut who set a duration record, over a year, solo in one of their space stations? Although a lack of weight weakened his body, he seemed to take it well mentally.

ISTM that any mental distress would result from contemplation of one's impending death. But some saints have used just that to spiritual advantage, eg., Saint John of the Cross with a skull on his desk.

ICXC NIKA
Most solo sailors do so by their own choice. Secondly they set foot on shore from time to time. Third they have a regime they follow. Fourth, these days they have radio and communication equipment. There was an American called Joshua Slocum who was the first to sail around the world single handedly, and he would not have had radio since he sailed in the sailed around the world from around 1895 to 1898.

However it took him 3 years, so he obviously had a few breaks. Link refers -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Slocum

Likewise the Soviet cosmonaut would have had contact with base, so he was at least in touch with other people.

I'm an introvert myself, and generally prefer my own company. On long trips by car, I usually prefer to drive alone, although it can be a pleasant break to have company for a while.

But that's nothing like solitary confinement, or the sense of abandonment our hypothetical space traveller would experience. I think he'd go mad personally.
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  #22  
Old May 3, '12, 6:13 am
GEddie GEddie is online now
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
Most solo sailors do so by their own choice. Secondly they set foot on shore from time to time. Third they have a regime they follow. Fourth, these days they have radio and communication equipment. There was an American called Joshua Slocum who was the first to sail around the world single handedly, and he would not have had radio since he sailed in the sailed around the world from around 1895 to 1898.

However it took him 3 years, so he obviously had a few breaks. Link refers -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Slocum

Likewise the Soviet cosmonaut would have had contact with base, so he was at least in touch with other people.

I'm an introvert myself, and generally prefer my own company. On long trips by car, I usually prefer to drive alone, although it can be a pleasant break to have company for a while.

But that's nothing like solitary confinement, or the sense of abandonment our hypothetical space traveller would experience. I think he'd go mad personally.
A solo space traveller would certainly have communications with Houston/Moscow going. Also, he presumably volunteered both to train for space flight and for this particular mission, so he's more like a solo sailor post-1920 than either Slocum or a solitary prisoner.

For that matter, is he the sole survivor of an accident that wiped out other crew members? If not, then he has been solo for some time already and knows how to handle it. The difference is his impending death, not his ( or her) being alone.

If he or she had survived such an accident, then they would be too busy struggling for life in the wrecked spacecraft to worry about loneliness.

I'd still say that sense deprivation is harder on one's head than being alone. While NASA astronauts did train to endure it, I doubt very much that sense deprivation of the padded-black-hood (or soundproofed black bodybox) pattern is much of an issue in space travel.

ICXC NIKA
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  #23  
Old May 3, '12, 8:25 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Quote:
Originally Posted by triumphguy View Post
As a prison Chaplain years ago I visited the old solitary confinement cells in the prison I was working in.

It was down in a basement, and was a narrow corridor with cells (6' by 8' with no bed, chair, table, toilet or washbasin) on one side.

I went into one and let the guards lock me in and shut out the light (as they used to for 23 hours a day), and then leave the corridor and close that door too.

It was horrendous. The sense of complete and utter powerlessness, and the crushing darkness and silence were terrible.

I was only there a few minutes but it was not an experience I would like to try again. The worse thing was the total lack of freedom, and the blanking of the senses of sound and sight, with nothing to feel or sit on.

Solitary now has lights, and windows.
I would immediately go out of my mind, just knowing I was trapped in a small space. I made the mistake of agreeing to accompany my family on a trip 1 mile into the side of a mountain on a mining cart. I had to pray the whole time and still was crying and shaking. My kids were like, "Mom, are you OK?" Of course a claustrophobic in a deep dark hole is NOT OK!!



I would MAKE STUFF UP to tell my captors if they put me in such a position.
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  #24  
Old May 3, '12, 12:33 pm
GEddie GEddie is online now
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane View Post
I would immediately go out of my mind, just knowing I was trapped in a small space. I made the mistake of agreeing to accompany my family on a trip 1 mile into the side of a mountain on a mining cart. I had to pray the whole time and still was crying and shaking. My kids were like, "Mom, are you OK?" Of course a claustrophobic in a deep dark hole is NOT OK!!



I would MAKE STUFF UP to tell my captors if they put me in such a position.
My LORD. Did you ever need MRI done???


ICXC NIKA
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  #25  
Old May 3, '12, 12:58 pm
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atheistgirl atheistgirl is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

I could get all my ironing done in total peace and quiet and without constant interruptions.

Sheer Bliss

Sarah x
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Struggle and conflict is neither good nor bad, it just is. Everything that grows experiences conflict. Conflict precedes clarity. Everything has the seasons of growth. Recognize - acknowledge - forgive and change. All of these things are done through conflict.
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  #26  
Old May 3, '12, 1:00 pm
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atheistgirl atheistgirl is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

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Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
My LORD. Did you ever need MRI done???
I did after a riding accident. It was soooooooooooooooo cool being in there I was kinda disappointed when it was over

Sarah x
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Struggle and conflict is neither good nor bad, it just is. Everything that grows experiences conflict. Conflict precedes clarity. Everything has the seasons of growth. Recognize - acknowledge - forgive and change. All of these things are done through conflict.
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  #27  
Old May 3, '12, 1:50 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: The Value of Life in Extreme Isolation

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Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
My LORD. Did you ever need MRI done???


ICXC NIKA
Not so far. I am pretty sure I'd need to be anesthetized. Given LOTS of Valium, etc. and Versed so I wouldn't remember it.

I was never so happy to see the sunlight as I was when we finally came out of that mine.
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