Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old May 2, '12, 1:06 am
mdgspencer mdgspencer is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2006
Posts: 3,999
Religion: Catholic
Default Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

His Illinois bishop recently confronted Father Bill Rowe because he alters the liturgy during mass, and he openly agrees that he ad-libs during mass, and because of this meeting this priest resigned. Rowe also admits that he had performed marriages as civil unions in two cases to couples who were divorced and had not received Church annulments. Rowe then changed his mind about resigning and is attempting to rescind his resignation by an appeal to Rome, though from what the article linked below says, his chance of success with an appeal to Rome is remote, to say the least.
see http://www.bnd.com/2012/04/25/215435...ly-appeal.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 2, '12, 6:10 am
JRKH's Avatar
JRKH JRKH is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 14, 2007
Posts: 22,449
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

A sad situation.

A couple of good points though.
First that the Bishop is not publicly commenting and is keeping things "in house". This is a matter for the Clergy, not the newspapers, to sort out.

Second, I think that appealing to Rome is a good thing for the simple reason that it provides a more clear and "blanket" ruling on the matter. Something that other bishops can look to in dealing with such matters.

I pray for all concerned that the peace and the integrity of the Church be maintained.

Peace
James
__________________
.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 2, '12, 7:04 am
Ohana's Avatar
Ohana Ohana is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 1,174
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

I read this with interest. I know someone from that area who is a strong supporter of Fr. Rowe. Apparently he sees his role as to bring the people to Christ, not to the Bishop. Local people are most upset with the Bishop, considering him to have responded with rules and regs rather than pastoral care. They view Fr. Rowe as a biblical scholar who has brought scripture to the Mass and made it more understandable. There are a lot of distressed Catholics in the Mt. Carmel area. I hope this works out on a local level for the growth and well being of all concerned. Apparently there is a petition circulating with many more than 75 names. I could name a number, but I am not certain of my facts. What should be apparent is that people who are closely affected are watching how this issue is handled.
__________________
All shall be welll
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

Julian of norwich
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 2, '12, 7:30 am
opus101 opus101 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2011
Posts: 1,509
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

The priest at my parish ad libs ALL THE TIME! It is very annoying. He seems to think that his own made-up words are better than the Liturgy. It doesn't have anything to do with the new translation, because he also did this before with the former translation.

I've been to two other parishes in my area where the same thing is done. The priests seem to think that they are making the Mass more "relevant" and "meaningful" for the parishioners, and perhaps they even think that they know better how to bring others to Christ, but that is all sheer nonsense.

Sounds more like a narcissistic mental illness than anything else. The Mass is the Mass, and is universally the same (it is "Catholic").

The priest has plenty of opportunity to say his own thing during the sermon. Why mess with the Mass?

I'm glad the Bishop stepped in. I wonder if mine would, if he knew of the real aberrations (sometimes really silly and sappy ones) that occur in my area. There are so many that, by the end of Mass, I can't remember any of them in particular. I would actually have to write them down during Mass, and that doesn't seem like an option.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 2, '12, 8:16 am
JRKH's Avatar
JRKH JRKH is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 14, 2007
Posts: 22,449
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus101 View Post
The priest at my parish ad libs ALL THE TIME! It is very annoying. He seems to think that his own made-up words are better than the Liturgy. It doesn't have anything to do with the new translation, because he also did this before with the former translation.

I've been to two other parishes in my area where the same thing is done. The priests seem to think that they are making the Mass more "relevant" and "meaningful" for the parishioners, and perhaps they even think that they know better how to bring others to Christ, but that is all sheer nonsense.

Sounds more like a narcissistic mental illness than anything else. The Mass is the Mass, and is universally the same (it is "Catholic").

The priest has plenty of opportunity to say his own thing during the sermon. Why mess with the Mass?

I'm glad the Bishop stepped in. I wonder if mine would, if he knew of the real aberrations (sometimes really silly and sappy ones) that occur in my area. There are so many that, by the end of Mass, I can't remember any of them in particular. I would actually have to write them down during Mass, and that doesn't seem like an option.
How about a recorder??

Peace
James
__________________
.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 2, '12, 8:27 am
JRKH's Avatar
JRKH JRKH is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 14, 2007
Posts: 22,449
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohana View Post
I read this with interest. I know someone from that area who is a strong supporter of Fr. Rowe. Apparently he sees his role as to bring the people to Christ, not to the Bishop. Local people are most upset with the Bishop, considering him to have responded with rules and regs rather than pastoral care. They view Fr. Rowe as a biblical scholar who has brought scripture to the Mass and made it more understandable. There are a lot of distressed Catholics in the Mt. Carmel area. I hope this works out on a local level for the growth and well being of all concerned. Apparently there is a petition circulating with many more than 75 names. I could name a number, but I am not certain of my facts. What should be apparent is that people who are closely affected are watching how this issue is handled.
Well a petition might be fine if it addresses the proper issues...But I suspect that it won't. You say that they are concerned that the Bishop did not respond with "pastoral care". But how much more "pastoral care' can the Bishop give than to require that the parish priest...the local shepherd...Lead the flock in right ways.
The Bishop is dealing with a matter of a cleric who is (apparently) in open disobedience to the teachings and the discipline of the Church AND of his office as priest and pastor.

If, as you state, these people consider Fr Rowe a "biblical Scholar" then perhaps he would be better suited to a teaching position in a seminary than to the role of pastor to a local congregation.

In any event. The Church is not a democracy and while I'm sure the Bishop will give any petition due consideration, it is best to leave this matter up to those properly charged with dealing with it.

Peace
James
__________________
.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 2, '12, 10:58 am
Ohana's Avatar
Ohana Ohana is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 1,174
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

[quote=JRKH;9249614]Well a petition might be fine if it addresses the proper issues...But I suspect that it won't. You say that they are concerned that the Bishop did not respond with "pastoral care". But how much more "pastoral care' can the Bishop give than to require that the parish priest...the local shepherd...Lead the flock in right ways.
The Bishop is dealing with a matter of a cleric who is (apparently) in open disobedience to the teachings and the discipline of the Church AND of his office as priest and pastor.

My question here was more in the context of being a pastor to his priest. Perhaps on the order of clarifying in his homily what he thinks needs to be clarified for his congregation, or or other suggestions. It appeared (not sure this is true) that the bishop went pretty quickly to being directive, the firing the priest - more on the order of CEO/employee rather than as a shepherd. He might have spent a little more time with the people also .

If, as you state, these people consider Fr Rowe a "biblical Scholar" then perhaps he would be better suited to a teaching position in a seminary than to the role of pastor to a local congregation.

Well except that he might "contaminate" the seminarians with his "unusual" thoughts. In any event. The Church is not a democracy and while I'm sure the Bishop will give any petition due consideration, it is best to leave this matter up to those properly charged with dealing with it.
I got that!

I truly do not know the answer to this one, but am responding mostly to the pain I hear from my friend and the large number of people who are hurting over this.

Lets pray for all of them, including the Biships.
__________________
All shall be welll
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

Julian of norwich
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 2, '12, 2:10 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Posts: 28,537
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Interestingly enough this is what the Council of Trent expressed in Session XXII:

Quote:
CHAPTER VIII
THE MASS MAY NOT BE CELEBRATED IN THE VERNACULAR. ITS MYSTERIES TO BE EXPLAINED TO THE PEOPLE

Though the mass contains much instruction for the faithful, it has, nevertheless, not been deemed advisable by the Fathers that it should be celebrated everywhere in the vernacular tongue. Wherefore, the ancient rite of each Church, approved by the holy Roman Church, the mother and mistress of all churches, being everywhere retained, that the sheep of Christ may not suffer hunger, or <the little ones ask for bread and there is none to break it unto them,>[19] the holy council commands pastors and all who have the <cura animarum> that they, either themselves or through others, explain frequently during the celebration of the mass some of the things read during the mass, and that among other things they explain some mystery of this most holy sacrifice, especially on Sundays and festival days.[20]
Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 3, '12, 8:07 am
Ohana's Avatar
Ohana Ohana is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2011
Posts: 1,174
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

thanks for "Saying" ProVobis. maybe someone should send this to the Bishops in question.

I have no problem with the Church not being in error over time. I do have questions about over reaction over the short time, and how that affects us. Unfortunately, sometimes people get hurt. I hope all (and I do mean all) step back a bit from this to give it more thought and consideration.
__________________
All shall be welll
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

Julian of norwich
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 3, '12, 8:14 am
salusanimarum17 salusanimarum17 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2011
Posts: 297
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Interestingly enough this is what the Council of Trent expressed in Session XXII:



Just saying.
Are you "just saying" that this portion of the Council of Trent applies even now to the "new" Missal (translated into the vernacular) and that the priest in question followed the liturgical books to the letter but only added "explanations" where he deemed them to be needed and where the liturgical books allowed them?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 3, '12, 3:23 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Posts: 28,537
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by salusanimarum17 View Post
Are you "just saying" that this portion of the Council of Trent applies even now to the "new" Missal (translated into the vernacular) and that the priest in question followed the liturgical books to the letter but only added "explanations" where he deemed them to be needed and where the liturgical books allowed them?
I should have said "Just stating Trent documents" on this. Obviously the priest must obey his bishop first, but unless his bishop is dead set against it, I don't see the wrongfulness of saying the Mass in Latin and explaining the Mass to the people every now and then. Though I must say in today's environment the sermon might be a better time to do this. If he says the Mass in vernacular, how would the people know whether his adlibbing is actually part of the Mass texts or not?

But if you want to read the rest of Session 22, it's here.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Feb 16, '13, 8:36 pm
manygift1spirit's Avatar
manygift1spirit manygift1spirit is offline
Junior Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2008
Posts: 458
Religion: The only religion whose founder's tomb is empty
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

For some background and context, Fr. Rowe apparently has his own website.

From a quick looking over, it is not clear to me the Bishop's message has gotten through. Given that the Eucharist is almost certainly celebrated invalidly in his Masses, I think redoubling of prayers for him (and his parishioners) are in order.
__________________
In nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who oppose him. - Tolkien

Without Truth, Charity degenerates into sentimentality - Benedict XVI

If I [speak Truth] without Charity, I am a clanging bell or crashing cymbal - St. Paul
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Feb 17, '13, 3:37 am
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 6, 2006
Posts: 18,814
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by manygift1spirit View Post
For some background and context, Fr. Rowe apparently has his own website
The website doesn't seem to have been updated since the end of September 2012. The most recent news on the site is a news article dated September 25th

Quote:
A Vatican-based tribunal temporarily restored the Rev. Bill Rowe's powers to serve as a priest and celebrate the Catholic Mass in all dioceses outside of Belleville, according to a seven-page letter Rowe said he received from Rome.

But the letter, from Cardinal Mauro Piacenzo of the Congregation for the Clergy in Rome, while stating that Bishop Edward Braxton did not follow proper form in stripping Rowe of his priestly duties, warned that the only way the former pastor of St. Mary's Church in Mount Carmel would be allowed to serve as a priest in the future would be to admit he was wrong and to strictly follow the liturgy.
Quote:
"If I was going to do that, I would have done it long ago," Rowe said on Tuesday.
http://www.bnd.com/2012/09/25/233779...d-libbing.html

A November 2012 news article indicates that Bishop Braxton disagreed with Fr. Rowe's contention that he could have celebrated Mass outside the diocese. But the matter is moot, since the 60 day period to appeal the Vatican's ruling has passed and Fr. Rowe did not file an appeal.
http://www.bnd.com/2012/11/23/240501...gainst-ad.html

The article mentions that Fr. Rowe is living on the grounds of a Catholic church within the diocese. He serves as a volunteer at that church.

Here is the full statement from the bishop on the situation, dated November 21, 2012
http://www.bellevillemessenger.org/a...12/FrRowe.aspx

Last edited by Dale_M; Feb 17, '13 at 3:54 am.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Feb 17, '13, 3:41 am
Lucky7 Lucky7 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: March 19, 2009
Posts: 1,925
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

THe more I hear about this stuff the angrier I get.

I'd love to see the Church clean house, but it can't because of the shortage of priests already.

Where did we go wrong? There is just too much of this sort of thing going on in our parishes.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Sep 29, '13, 10:38 am
Yerusalyim Yerusalyim is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2005
Posts: 2,961
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only Appeal Now Is to Rome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale_M View Post
The website doesn't seem to have been updated since the end of September 2012. The most recent news on the site is a news article dated September 25th



http://www.bnd.com/2012/09/25/233779...d-libbing.html

A November 2012 news article indicates that Bishop Braxton disagreed with Fr. Rowe's contention that he could have celebrated Mass outside the diocese. But the matter is moot, since the 60 day period to appeal the Vatican's ruling has passed and Fr. Rowe did not file an appeal.
http://www.bnd.com/2012/11/23/240501...gainst-ad.html

The article mentions that Fr. Rowe is living on the grounds of a Catholic church within the diocese. He serves as a volunteer at that church.

Here is the full statement from the bishop on the situation, dated November 21, 2012
http://www.bellevillemessenger.org/a...12/FrRowe.aspx
Father Rowe is NOT and never has lived on the grounds of the Church where he volunteers. I'm a member of the parish in question. A member of the Parish (where Fr. Rowe served as a pastor years ago) has made available a lake-side cabin owned by the family either at little or no cost.

I do wish that Fr. Rowe would meet the requirements to have his faculties reinstated by the Bishop. The pastor at the parish in question is quite ill...he's so ill that he can no longer process with the entrance or exit and cannot stand but is seated behind the altar in a chair. It would be nice if Fr. Rowe would stick to the rubric and get reinstated so he could help out the sick pastor.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8457Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: suko
5143CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4424Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3863SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3735Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3320Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3283Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3224Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3109For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: RevDrJBTDDPhD



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:02 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.