Quote:
Originally Posted by fbl9
Seriously what do i have in this life that if lost means anything, my salvation is in the 'bag'. There is nothing God can do to me that would cause me to fear.Hasten my end? Why that would be grand for i get heaven. Take my family? then God is no longer just, punishing others for some one else.Take my wealth? I have not the attachment to it so it would of no loss for i will still have heaven.
Sure read and quote scripture all you want but if you want to support error then there is no use of scripture.
Yet you haven't quoted Romans 11:22 Why not? Is because you know it clearly defies your postion. Reading your "teachings" one can't help but think this is me theology.
God picked me
I repent beacuse i fear loss for myself in this life
I repent because i loose rewards for myself
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fbl9, neither you nor I want to support error. Proper use of Scripture IS imperative. That is why the Jews in Berea were designated as “noble” (Acts 17:11) when they searched the Scriptures daily to confirm Paul’s teaching. The Scriptures are what we are to study to be approved by God (2 Tim 2:15) so Christians will be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim 3:16-17).
If you have been following my responses, I have provided a context that demonstrates Jesus sheep will never perish (John 9:1 thru John 10:30 – Jesus sheep never perish, John 6:37-40, Jesus will not lose any that the Father gives Him – that is the will of the Father). Scripturally, we know the sheep are the elect of God (see Eph 1:3-14).
Therefore, you seem to think that Romans 11:22 is a challenge to this, such that it shows the sheep can perish. Let’s settle the context of this verse. Paul is writing to the Romans, which has a considerable number of non-Jewish believers. Paul is, of course, the Apostle to the Gentiles (Rom 11:13).
In Romans 9 thru 11, Paul tells about God’s dealings with Israel, past and present, and where the Gentiles fit in (or are grafted in). These verses indicate a corporate view of God’s chosen people, their unbelief, and promises both for Israel and Gentile believers as a corporate whole.
Verses 9:1-5 tell us of Israel’s rejection of Christ (not a good thing!) and Paul’s sorrow and grief over that.
Verses 9:6-13 tell us of Israel’s unbelief and yet it is consistent with God’s purposes (6-13), His mercy and justice (14-24), and His prophetic revelation and prerequisite of faith (25-33).
Verses 10:1-13 tell us of Israel’s need for the gospel and their ignorance of God and ignorance of placing faith in Jesus Christ. Note vv. 3-4 and the real danger of a system of works righteousness – it is faith in Christ, not works. And v. 13, whoever believes (and only the elect will, because only the elect have been given the ability to believe), whether Jew or Gentile, will be saved. Remember, a person who is “dead in sins” (Eph 2:1) is “dead” – thus unable to do anything righteous (Rom 3:10).
Verses 10:14-21 tell us of Israel’s rejection of the Gospel, and how the Gentiles will receive the Gospel and salvation.
Verses 11:1-10 tell us Israel is not totally rejected – the elect remnant remains and understands grace, not works, in accordance with the Old Testament.
Verses 11:11-26 tell us that though Israel has fallen, the promises still apply. The root remains good, but branches are removed (unbelieving Jews) and other branches are grafted in (Gentile believers). Now to the challenge of your verse.
The context of 11:22 is that God has sovereignly decided to put Israel aside for a time and offer salvation through faith to the whole world (Gentiles grafted in!). This was a stern act done in judgment on those Jews who “stumbled over” Jesus Christ (9:32-33). He has been kind to the Gentiles, but Gentile believers must continue in his kindness, which means they must have steadfast perseverance in faith (corporately), this faith in Christ. If Gentile believers do not continue in their perseverance, they too can be cut off just as the natural branches (Jews) were cut off due to their unbelief. The picture is of the Gentiles as a group, like the unbelieving Jews, turning away from God. God’s sternness was demonstrated in that faith was NOT automatic for the chosen people (the Jews were chosen, yet that certainly did not mean salvation for all Jews as Paul makes clear). So the Gentiles, too, with unbelief can be cut off. Again, it is the corporate group, not the individual sheep being spoken of here.
You realize, I hope, that IF you had been right about this verse, it would have provided a contradiction or error in the Scriptures. Jesus sheep NEVER perish – Jesus sheep CAN perish. That won’t happen to God’s Word. God doesn’t lie and he is not the author of confusion (Rom 3:4; 1 Cor 14:33; Heb 6:18). The world wide web is full of web sites that "prove" their points with verses ripped from their context and improperly applied.
Let's avoid that error.
In Christ, OldProf
Re: Assurance of Salvation
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