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  #76  
Old May 4, '12, 9:25 am
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

Most Catholics I know use ABC, support homosexual marriage and sex before marriage. Should these Catholics remain in communion with the faith? All of them accept the Eucharist during mass.

Should cafeteria Catholics go apostate?


Friend,
point one is bad enough (use of ABC), but many sincerely misunderstand the SERIOUSNESS of that one particular thing, since all of society and most christians condone it. One can be SINCERELY confused about that. But all the other stuff, taken TOGETHER with their use of ABC, indicates that they are ALREADY apostate,
so there is no question here of should they "GO" apostate.
If they are already doing all these things and more, and advocating them,
and have been counselled to repent and WON'T do so,
then they are ALREADY apostates. ((though INDIVIDUAL culpabilities will vary due
to individual circumstances, how well they were catechized, etc, and the DEGREE of their WILLFULNESS in rebelling)). But in general they are ALREADY apostates.
AND, because of that,
their RECEIVING OF COMMUNION is an extremely grave Act of Sacrilege,
a sinful assault against the Body and Blood of the Lord,
as Saint Paul, speaking by the Holy Spirit, infallibly warned us.
These people, because unrepentant, ARE the "bad fish" in the net,
they are the "cockle" or "weeds" in the field of Wheat planted by the Lord.
They SHOULD leave, but a massive church effort to expel them all,
as some call for, and I have too, in the past,
would result in the ripping up of the WHEAT plants as well, and Christ said
NOT to do that, no matter how tempting it would be to do that very thing
in order to "cleanse the temple," so to speak.

Sincerely,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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  #77  
Old May 6, '12, 6:42 pm
Aboveallbereal Aboveallbereal is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

I think we have to understand the nature of the world we are in. By we I mean Western Europeans and North Americans who comprise most members here.

2 realities intrude:

1. The societies in which we live find their basic bedrock assumptions not in Christianity any more but in liberal humaniam.

2. Christianity and specifically catholic Christianity is counter cultural in a world which accepts materialist humanism as "obviously true" and which is viscerally anti authority.

Given the above and the concurrent fact that most people are still baptised it is quasi inevitable that many indeed most nominal Catholics will divert from Church teachings whenever such teaching comes into conflict with the liberal humanist moeurs and expectations which are the basic moeurs of the culture in which they ae raised.

I feel The Church would be better served if it stopped pretending to suppose the above was not true and instead explained to people better that while such response is natural it is nonetheless erroneous. Robust teaching while remaining open armed is a difficult balancing act.
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  #78  
Old May 8, '12, 6:07 pm
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Kathryn Ann Kathryn Ann is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

I agree that ideally, they should repent, confess, and be in submission to the teachings of the Church and we should pray for them to do so. Here is the definition of Apostasy from the Catholic Encyclopedia. It clarifies for me the seriousness of this issue. I would always work and pray to remain safely within the Ark of the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and pray the same for others, in Christ's great love. :

"(apo, from, and stasis, station, standing, or position).

The word itself in its etymological sense, signifies the desertion of a post, the giving up of a state of life; he who voluntarily embraces a definite state of life cannot leave it, therefore, without becoming an apostate. Most authors, however, distinguish with Benedict XIV (De Synodo di£cesan‚, XIII, xi, 9), between three kinds of apostasy: apostasy a Fide or perfidi£, when a Christian gives up his faith; apostasy ab ordine, when a cleric abandons the ecclesiastical state; apostasy a religione, or monachatus, when a religious leaves the religious life."
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  #79  
Old May 8, '12, 9:29 pm
Findingmyshoes Findingmyshoes is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I think it would be best for the body of Christ if we concentrated on our own sins and lack of virtue first, before we start wondering about whether other people deserve to be part of the Church.

I spent 25 years as one of those "apostate" Catholics. God was patient with me until I came to my senses.

If God can be patient with our faults and sins, maybe we should be patient with other people as well instead of wondering if they deserve to be members of the Church.


-Tim-
Thank you for posting this. I as thinking the same thing.
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  #80  
Old May 8, '12, 11:51 pm
Chaim_Ibrahim Chaim_Ibrahim is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

The very nature of this question does not at all sound like the Jesus of Nazareth we know through Scripture & our foundation in the long histories of communities of believers. As far as we know, Jesus saw no trouble with His followers "laboring on Sabbath" by gleaning corn from the fields for sustenance. Then there's that other situation where Jesus is quoted as saying "Who among you is without sin? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone at this woman." "Get the plank out of your own eye before concerning yourself with the splinter in your brother's eye." Etc.

The nature of this question sounds more like the attitudes of the stereotypes of Pharisees of the time of Jesus.

We are confident that God will not abandon the Church on earth. The Church is stronger when we embrace, respect & support all who pursue holiness with sincere hearts. The Body of Christ is composed of all its members and not one of us here now can justifiably claim perfection. Let's leave such claims to Jesus & Mary, if indeed either of them is inclined toward pronouncing such claims of perfection. I suspect both Jesus & Mary are more inclined toward humble silence on the matters of their states of perfection.
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  #81  
Old May 9, '12, 7:22 am
JohnMGonser JohnMGonser is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

I'm a looooong way from perfection, but I regard attendance and participation in the Eucharistic Feast as my best chance at improvement. Our Lord ate and drank with sinners like me before and He continues to do so this very day. I don't think I have a shot at eternal life without help like this. I know that the best I give is not good enough, but it is what I have. With God's help, through the Eucharist, it will get better.
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  #82  
Old May 9, '12, 3:39 pm
Mangy Donkey Mangy Donkey is offline
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Default Re: Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post

I spent 25 years as one of those "apostate" Catholics. God was patient with me until I came to my senses.

If God can be patient with our faults and sins, maybe we should be patient with other people as well instead of wondering if they deserve to be members of the Church.


-Tim-
Great point Tim, I too for most of my youth and early adult life was an "apostate" who never missed Mass. I have to remind myself of this quite often when I find myself judging others at Mass. You never know when or what will flip the switch.
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