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  #31  
Old May 4, '12, 8:25 am
Cristiano Cristiano is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
Similarly:

1233 ...before being completed later by Confirmation and the Eucharist...

1233 Hodie igitur in omnibus latinis et orientalibus ritibus, initiatio christiana adultorum ab eorum in catechumenatum incipit ingressu, suumque attingit culmen in unica celebratione trium sacramentorum Baptismi, Confirmationis et Eucharistiae. 176 In ritibus orientalibus, initiatio christiana infantium in Baptismo incipit quem immediate Confirmatio et Eucharistia sequuntur, dum in ritu Romano illa per catecheseos prosequitur annos ut posterius Confirmatione concludatur et Eucharistia quae culmen est eorum initiationis christiana. 177
Here the completion refers to the years of catechesis of Christian initiation. Independently of the translation this is one of the reasons why the CCC is not a dogmatic document in itself but is a necessary document for catechesis. Two different goals thus different documents. The catechism, correctly, dives into showing an intrinsic relationship between the sacraments and it does in a manner useful for teaching purposes. We have to understand that it cannot be everything for everybody and that is why it is not the only document of the Church.
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  #32  
Old May 4, '12, 8:36 am
Cristiano Cristiano is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

My point is that Baptism, Confirmation and Communion are sacraments and they are necessary for our salvation. Being necessary does not mean that in ordinary circumstances they are sufficient and that is why we also have confession, we can repeat communion, and we have the anointing of the sick. However, while each sacrament is complete in itself, their effect in the economy of salvation is perfected by the others. Something being necessary and complete does not automatically imply being sufficient.
I can look at the example of a meal for a guest of honor, I can cook something that tastes really good and that is a complete effort because it provides the necessary nutrients and it is edible; however it could and should be perfected by proper plating because our final goal is not just to feed our guest but to honor him too.
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  #33  
Old May 4, '12, 3:33 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

Good research, vico and cristiano.
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  #34  
Old May 5, '12, 11:04 pm
DJJG DJJG is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859 View Post
Technically, the Eucharist is the Sacrament that completes Christian Initiation. That most people in the U.S. receive Confirmation after First Communion is somewhat of a historical anomaly.

But you are correct about Ordination and Marriage. If the OP's son ever wanted to get married in the Catholic Church later on, he would need to be confirmed first. If he simply wanted to come back as a single man (assuming he has already received First Confession and First Communion), he would just have to go to Confession in order to start receiving the Eucharist again. Of course, he is welcome to attend Mass at any time even without receiving Reconciliation provided he does not present himself for Communion.

I would encourage the OP to talk to his priest for advice on handling the whole situation. Obviously, having our children "opt out" of the sacraments is not ideal and is something we want avoid whenever possible.
Confirmation is required for holy orders but NOT REQUIRED but is highly recommended before marriage. If one is not confirmed, when they go to their pastor to prepare for marriage, then he is to try to make every reasonable effort to help them receive confirmation before they are married, but if not they will still have a sacremental marriage if they are both baptized.
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  #35  
Old May 6, '12, 5:54 pm
Jussayn Jussayn is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

My 7th grader, who after preparing via the parish program was to be confirmed at Mass a few years ago. On the way in, she had a mini panic attact and said she wasn't ready and didn't want to even go into Mass. I told her no one would force her to be confirmed that day, and we proceeded into Mass, where she did not participate in confirmation. She is still not confirmed today.

One reason I joined this site is to get better insight into issues like these:

We were told, that a confirmand must have a sponsor and it cannot be a parent in accord w/canon law (similar to baptism CL ?874) but isn't it true that canon law does NOT REQUIRE a sponsor for either sacrament although it strongly encourages them and sets out requirements for sponsors should they participate?

What is the rationale for moving the age of confirmation back to 3rd grade?

It makes sense to me that the age was raised from 3rd grade to high school. I was confirmed in 3rd grade, and I don't think I'm alone when I admit that to me, at that age, it was essentially an opportunity to wear a pretty dress and pick another name.

When my daughter was in 3rd grade, confirmation was provided in high school, then when she was in 7th grade, confirmation was offered in 3rd grade. She went through the teen program's confirmation prep class at our parish, was offered a sponsor and attended the classes-of course it appears that training, along with our home teaching and practices and her parochial school education were insufficient to lead her to want to be confirmed.

What is considered appropriate preparation to be confirmed?

I looked into home schooling her as she is very shy and does not like a lot of hoopla. She sees no point in attending another parish prep class. There does not appear to be any consensus on what appropriate preparation consists of according to our DRE.She could not refer me to materials to use, and also indicated that my daughter would still need to go through one of the scheduled confirmation ceremonies w/a sponsor at Mass, in order to be confirmed in our parish.

At this time, she does not feel that confirmation is that important anymore. She professes faith in God and Jesus and those things of a doctrinal nature, but is turned off by a lot of the ideas and positions of the "Catholic Community" as she puts it. In fact she feels at times, the actions of the "Catholic Community" are in contrast with some of the Catholic doctrine, and she prefers to learn on her own when she has questions. I feel fortunate that we have a good relationship, and that she will often discuss matters of faith and their application in her life with me, but I feel wholly ill-equipped to respond to some of her observations.

Am I the only parent going through this? If not, what is working for those of you with teenagers?
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  #36  
Old May 6, '12, 7:01 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

Jussayn, here are replies to you questions:

I am assuming you are in the Latin Church.

Q1 ...isn't it true that canon law does not require a sponsor for either sacrament although it strongly encourages them and sets out requirements for sponsors should they participate?
CIC
Can. 872 In so far as possible, a person being baptized is to be assigned a sponsor. In the case of an adult baptism, the sponsor's role is to assist the person in christian initiation. In the case of an infant baptism, the role is together with the parents to present the child for baptism, and to help it to live a christian life befitting the baptized and faithfully to fulfill the duties inherent in baptism.
Can. 892 As far as possible the person to be confirmed is to have a sponsor. The sponsor's function is to take care that the person confirmed behaves as a true witness of Christ and faithfully fulfills the duties inherent in this sacrament.
Can. 893 1 A person who would undertake the office of sponsor must fulfill the conditions mentioned in can. 874. 2 It is desirable that the sponsor chosen be the one who undertook this role at baptism.
Q2 What is the rationale for moving the age of confirmation back to 3rd grade?
Diocese of Phoenix has the restored order.

"This new policy has effectively changed the age for Confirmation preparation and reception from 16 years of age (sophomore or junior in high school), to the ages of students in the third grade. As a result, the preparation and reception of the Sacraments of Initiation throughout the Diocese of Phoenix will be: Baptism: in Infancy, Reconciliation: Second Grade, Confirmation and First Eucharist: Third Grade."

By placing Confirmation at this age, the Diocese of Phoenix will be following the natural sequence of the Sacraments of Christian Initiation: Baptism, Then Confirmation, and then reception of First Eucharist. Pope Paul VI stated the following:
The sharing in the divine nature given to men through the grace of Christ bears a certain likeness to the origin, development, and nourishing of natural life. The faithful are born anew by Baptism, strengthened by the sacrament of Confirmation, and received in the Eucharist the food of eternal life. By means of these sacraments of Christian initiation, they thus receive in increasing measure the treasures of the divine life and advance toward the perfection of charity (CCC 1212).
It should also be noted that this is the sequence followed by RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) which requires that children and adults in the catechumenate receive all three sacraments together, even if the children are younger than the age at which the Catholic children of the parish are routinely confirmed and by the Eastern Catholic Churches for infants and adults alike (CCC 1232).

In addition, by placing Confirmation prior to the reception of First Eucharist it makes it easier to view the Eucharist as the "summit" of Christian initiation (CCC 1233).

Therefore, all baptized persons who have reached the age of reason should be appropriately prepared and receive the Sacrament of Confirmation before the reception of the Holy Eucharist.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm
Q3 What is considered appropriate preparation to be confirmed?
A candidate for confirmation must be seven years of age or above and be baptized and not previously confirmed, Catholic (children baptized in another church must make a Profession of Faith), must be properly instructed, must be capable of renewing their Baptismal promises, must have previously been prepared for and received the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

The preparation is: "Confirmation preparation is simply an explanation of the sacrament itself in the context of an active family faith life and parish catechesis. This is similar to what took place for First Confession and First Eucharist."

http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm
Q4 Am I the only parent going through this?
No.
Q5 If not, what is working for those of you with teenagers?
I don't know, I have no teenagers.
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Last edited by Vico; May 6, '12 at 7:05 pm. Reason: forgot part of the reply
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  #37  
Old May 7, '12, 6:31 pm
Jussayn Jussayn is offline
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Default Re: Is confirmation manadatory?

Vico, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my questions.

Perhaps the reference I was using re: the requirement for sponsor was outdated. I was relying on an article by Dr. Edward N Peters re: preparing children for sacraments found on the canonlawinfo.com site which stated:

Touching another matter, canon law does not require baptismal sponsors, known popularly as "godparents," but the practice is strongly encouraged (Canon 872). . and As was true of Baptism, there is no strict requirement that Confirmation sponsors be used (see Canon 892), but the practice is a long-standing one and is to be encouraged. A confirmation sponsor may be of either sex, and it is hoped that one of the confirmand's original baptismal sponsors will accept the role of Confirmation sponsor (Canon 893).

I found the site you included very informative also, re: the intention, practice and changes in practice to the order of the the sacraments of initiation. Thank you.

I am hopeful to hear from parents of teens who pose questions re: "why should I be confirmed now?" and question if not being confirmed causes the grace of the Holy Spirit to be withheld from them, or "incomplete" since they have not been confirmed.

Thanks
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