I’m not a Mormon. Here's why... - Page 6

Stephen168 · #76 May 10, '12, 8:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Mormon apologetics sites won't work for arguments here. They do nothing but dissemble, without addressing anything. It isn't about trying to silence Mormons, its about hoping to get from them a rational argument.

I would add; a rational argument based on facts, and facts should be available at non-Mormon websites.

mike1977 · #77 Jul 17, '12, 8:11 am

I came across this discussion the other day while researching Rabbi Wernick's dissertation paper. I found it interesting that this paper was so widely discussed online. Since Rabbi Wernick is my Rabbi, I brought this up to him. We had a good discussion about his thoughts on the parallels between Mormonism and Judaism. It seems to me that the point behind Rabbi's paper, according to him, is so much different than how others have been viewing and using it.

zaffiroborant · #78 Jul 17, '12, 9:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1977

I came across this discussion the other day while researching Rabbi Wernick's dissertation paper. I found it interesting that this paper was so widely discussed online. Since Rabbi Wernick is my Rabbi, I brought this up to him. We had a good discussion about his thoughts on the parallels between Mormonism and Judaism. It seems to me that the point behind Rabbi's paper, according to him, is so much different than how others have been viewing and using it.

So what was the point behind the Rabbi's paper and how are other using and viewing it differently? I'm sort of lost because the paper is about parallels ("Throughout the research, one purpose was always present: to show the parallels between the Book of Abraham and Jewish literature.") and that seems to be how others are viewing and using it.

Patavium · #79 Jul 17, '12, 11:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1977

I came across this discussion the other day while researching Rabbi Wernick's dissertation paper. I found it interesting that this paper was so widely discussed online. Since Rabbi Wernick is my Rabbi, I brought this up to him. We had a good discussion about his thoughts on the parallels between Mormonism and Judaism. It seems to me that the point behind Rabbi's paper, according to him, is so much different than how others have been viewing and using it.

I find this comment odd, because you write these statements, but give not back up evidence at all, no explanation

Jerusha · #80 Jul 17, '12, 11:31 am

Quote:

I find this comment odd, because you write these statements, but give not back up evidence at all, no explanation

Joseph had two Jewish teachers, and apparently, as a result, according to Mike Quinn, had minimal knowledge of the Kabbala. No surprise, there.

Marie5890 · #81 Jul 17, '12, 2:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patavium

I find this comment odd, because you write these statements, but give not back up evidence at all, no explanation

I think that Mike1977 was referring to LivingWaters using the Rabbi's dissertation to back up her/his view of the BoA.

Mike just stumbled on this when he was researching his Rabbi and it showed up in google.

Mike's view is that LivingWaters is using the Rabbi's work in a way the Rabbi never intended.

Patavium · #82 Jul 17, '12, 2:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie5890

I think that Mike1977 was referring to LivingWaters using the Rabbi's dissertation to back up her/his view of the BoA.

Mike just stumbled on this when he was researching his Rabbi and it showed up in google.

Mike's view is that LivingWaters is using the Rabbi's work in a way the Rabbi never intended.

Thank you for clearing it up

Marie5890 · #83 Jul 17, '12, 2:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patavium

Thank you for clearing it up

You are more than welcome.

mike1977 · #84 Jul 17, '12, 2:38 pm

Marie you hit the nail on the head. Rabbi believes JS was influenced by the teachings of certain rabbi's he had contact with. This is where he believes the parallels come from. His dissertation paper was not written to give validity to the boa. Which is what certain Mormons are using the paper as.

Marie5890 · #85 Jul 17, '12, 3:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1977

Marie you hit the nail on the head. Rabbi believes JS was influenced by the teachings of certain rabbi's he had contact with. This is where he believes the parallels come from. His dissertation paper was not written to give validity to the boa. Which is what certain Mormons are using the paper as.

Thanks for clarifying that, Mike. And welcome to CAF.

zaffiroborant · #86 Jul 17, '12, 8:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1977

Marie you hit the nail on the head. Rabbi believes JS was influenced by the teachings of certain rabbi's he had contact with. This is where he believes the parallels come from. His dissertation paper was not written to give validity to the boa. Which is what certain Mormons are using the paper as.

Well the dissertation in no way addresses where the parallels came from, it simply makes a case for the parallels. Which I'm sure made Dr.'s Sperry, Rasmussen and Ludlow quite happy. It really is no surprise that Mormons are going to use it in support of the BoA.

Jerusha · #87 Jul 18, '12, 5:37 am

So he attended BYU because he lived in SLC? Now I understand why he danced around the issue. I found it, and might use it as an example of Mormon games. Thank you, Mike.

zaffiroborant · #88 Jul 18, '12, 6:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerusha

So he attended BYU because he lived in SLC? Now I understand why he danced around the issue. I found it, and might use it as an example of Mormon games. Thank you, Mike.

I think the "dance" was choreographed.

Jerusha · #89 Jul 18, '12, 7:10 am

Quote:

I think the "dance" was choreographed.

Yep-- the choreographer was his thesis committee. And he had to submit in order to get that degree. Too bad he didn't check into the anti-Semitic changes to the Isaiah passages. Blech!

LivingWaters7 · #90 Jul 21, '12, 8:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie5890

I think that Mike1977 was referring to LivingWaters using the Rabbi's dissertation to back up her/his view of the BoA.

Mike just stumbled on this when he was researching his Rabbi and it showed up in google.

Mike's view is that LivingWaters is using the Rabbi's work in a way the Rabbi never intended.

Except of course that I provided no commentary on whether he supported the Book of Abraham, except for saying that it is one work (among many others), that shows fascinating parallels between the Book of Abraham and other ancient Near Eastern/Judaic texts, which is exactly what he says in his article. Naturally I find such parallels amazing in light of what many critics claim about Joseph Smith (and/or his associates), and find such parallels to support the ancient origin of the Book of Abraham, however that is different from saying that I believe that the Rabbi believes the Book of Abraham to be of ancient origin.

Here is the abstract of the article for those interested:

The study of the Book of Abraham in light of Jewish literature affords a great deal of insight into the parallels present between Mormon tradition and Jewish tradition. It is the objective of this writer to expose a variety of topics which appear both in Mormon and Jewish theology and which can only add to verify the notions that these two great theologies do indeed concur on many issues.

The souls of the pre-mortal life are mentioned in both traditions. Although the souls differ, they have the potential of becoming equal. Mormon and Jewish literature concur when viewing Creation inasmuch as it is agreed that life was manifested of a formless archmatter which the Creator simply brought into order. Man is created in God's image according to both traditions; this implies that human life is infinitely precious and therefore is the crown and glory of creation. Both traditions propound the view that Adam, Noah, Enoch, Shem and Melchizedek possessed the priesthood. Abraham, viewed as one of the greatest men of his time, is so portrayed in both traditions. He invented an alphabet and was the author of a treatise on the subject of creation. He received the priesthood from Melchizedek. Abraham possessed certain stones that could be described as the forerunners to the organized Urim and Thummim as described in the Book of Exodus. Noah possessed the same stones. Both Jewish and Mormon literature portray the Divine Promise with reference to Abraham being the father of a great nation. He and his posterity would be given a land which would be for them an everlasting inheritance.

http://geocitiessites.com/Athens/Par...1/WERNICK.html