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  #121  
Old May 12, '12, 5:54 am
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Julia Mae Julia Mae is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by sedonaman View Post
. A male student had a wrestling scholarship that required him to wrestle. He was forced out of an education. But that's OK. It made the radical egalitarian females happy.
Let's compare how many males have been discommoded to the number of women who never had the chance to even think about a higher education. Let's see: that would be millions compared to what? Maybe a few thousand if we really stretch the point.

If people experience indignation or outrage over the unfairness of it all, they should all run out and join the feminist movement.
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  #122  
Old May 12, '12, 6:00 am
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Califman831 View Post
it would have been an act of charity on her part towards the other team and to her fellow teammates who expected to play that game. In the end nobody played.
Right. Because "charity" is such a common element in competitive sports.
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  #123  
Old May 12, '12, 6:01 am
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by poker10 View Post
Sounds like the SSPX team would have the bruised egos if they played against a GIRL!!!! And actually, they expected the GIRL'S team to cave in, as she sat out during the season, but had obviously had enough and wanted to play.
Or was ordered to by her coach who wanted to be sure and win the championship and wanted all his best players on board.
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  #124  
Old May 12, '12, 6:05 am
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Nimzovik View Post
Indeed? Then Our Lady of Sorrows did what was right and just. Indeed again. I could even speculate that the opposing team planted a girl on their team knowing that the opposing school would not play them - could I not? If so then this is the worst sort of manipulation and in violation of any standards of sportsmanhip IMHO.
My, that would be uncharitable. I wonder if there is any information about how many games she played overall against other teams and what her stats were?
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  #125  
Old May 12, '12, 6:06 am
DJK100 DJK100 is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

I don't know why people are viewing this as a sexism issue. It is not like the SSPX were demanding that she be removed from the league or saying didn't earn her spot or was just given a spot because she was female. They were simply stating that in their belief there is much to learn from separating the sexes in various activities. Again they are not commenting on competence but just in nature. Which, again, is what they believe.

In what the SSPX school stated about their mission it is reasonable and justifiable to recuse themselves from the game. It is not like the other team didn't know that this is what would happen when and if they were to play so it is not as if they didn't expect it either. Both teams are well within their rights. SSPX forfeting and the other team saying that their best players should play. There really isn't an issue and both teams handled it justly.

Also, to the people who keep commenting about the league rules, I am willing to bet the league was formed before this girl decided to play baseball so at the time they joined it probably really wasn't an issue. In fact, this is likely a special case otherwise there would not be so much attention brought to it. Besides, you can forfeit a game anytime so I don't think they are violating any league rules and I really doubt they were pressuring her not to play. Was it unfair to put her in this position, maybe, but it shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone and it definately wasn't intentional on either side. She seems to be more a victim of circumstance. .

And before people start yelling at me just so you know I played baseball with my sister on my team. And there is a legitamate chance of contact as I can remember her playing third and basically knocking out a guy trying to steal third with her tag. So SSPX concerns are valid even if I don't necessarily agree with them.
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  #126  
Old May 12, '12, 10:08 am
Nimzovik Nimzovik is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Julia Mae View Post
Let's compare how many males have been discommoded to the number of women who never had the chance to even think about a higher education.1) Let's see: that would be millions compared to what? Maybe a few thousand if we really stretch the point.

2)If people experience indignation or outrage over the unfairness of it all, they should all run out and join the feminist movement.
Numerals mine.

1) a, I should think that the numbers of injustice is not the issue so much as the injustice itself. Injustices regarding all.
b, Indeed, If we should talk numbers then let us consider this: How many men have essentially fulfilled the role of slave (talk about being discommoded!) by being forced to be the 'Primary Material Provider' instead of being able to stay at home and enjoy his children? Ahemmmmmmmmmmm? How many men have been forced to die for their family due to wars? Wars often initiated by the Queens as well as the Kings.

2) And of course this solution is just laughable in view of Modern Feminism's 1) sole purpose today is to lobby for women and not for the other half of the population (sheesh!) as well. Essentially, Feminists are just another exclusionary 'Special Interest Group' that advocates me, me, me! In truth they should not be called Feminists, but rather WE-ists or US - ists if they are truly wishing to strive for altruism and endeavoring to solve problems as opposed to achieving a sort of Political Dominance and essentially being a tool for the divisive, Democratic Party (let's be honest here.) 2) The supporting of Feminists as defined today, is to support Pro - Death, abortive, Pro Planned Parenthood, policies. 3)Modern Feminism's current goals certainly does not represent the bulk of women today.
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  #127  
Old May 12, '12, 10:30 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Julia Mae View Post
And, one example doesn't mean anything. Let's all recall fondly how well Billy Jean King trounced Bobby Riggs in their tennis match. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Riggs

It certainly doesn't prove or even support that men are less able than women on a tennis court.

Especially considering Riggs was about years younger than Moses when the match occured, and slightly less spry.

Regardless, good for BJK. But why truly open up amateur and professional sports to all genders in the name or equality?

Look at the fuss made in NY about the boy field hockey player I posted earlier. He was taking away the fun for the teams in the league, because he was so much better than everyone else. Why force that issue?

Let girls play with other girls, and boys play with boys. Comingling only hurts girls, in most cases.
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  #128  
Old May 12, '12, 10:33 am
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Crescentinus Crescentinus is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by He Man View Post
Let girls play with other girls, and boys play with boys. Comingling only hurts girls, in most cases.
I find it sad that some abuse the law to impose comingling.
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  #129  
Old May 12, '12, 10:33 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Julia Mae View Post
Let's compare how many males have been discommoded to the number of women who never had the chance to even think about a higher education. Let's see: that would be millions compared to what? Maybe a few thousand if we really stretch the point.

If people experience indignation or outrage over the unfairness of it all, they should all run out and join the feminist movement.
Sports in general are based on revenue generation. Some men's sports, and most women's sports are not remotely profitable.

Look at the WNBA - its takes a loss, but is funded by the revenue from the NBA. Fair or unfair, that's just the reality of life. However, Tennessee women's basketball outdraws the men by a lot.

Many a men's sport has ceased to exist due to cost and a lack of ability to fund itself. Economics don't work based on pity or fairness.

Again, are you okay with opening up all leagues to both genders, in terms of fairness?
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  #130  
Old May 12, '12, 10:53 am
LucyLight LucyLight is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by DJK100 View Post
I don't know why people are viewing this as a sexism issue. It is not like the SSPX were demanding that she be removed from the league or saying didn't earn her spot or was just given a spot because she was female. They were simply stating that in their belief there is much to learn from separating the sexes in various activities. Again they are not commenting on competence but just in nature. Which, again, is what they believe.

In what the SSPX school stated about their mission it is reasonable and justifiable to recuse themselves from the game. It is not like the other team didn't know that this is what would happen when and if they were to play so it is not as if they didn't expect it either. Both teams are well within their rights. SSPX forfeting and the other team saying that their best players should play. There really isn't an issue and both teams handled it justly.

Also, to the people who keep commenting about the league rules, I am willing to bet the league was formed before this girl decided to play baseball so at the time they joined it probably really wasn't an issue. In fact, this is likely a special case otherwise there would not be so much attention brought to it. Besides, you can forfeit a game anytime so I don't think they are violating any league rules and I really doubt they were pressuring her not to play. Was it unfair to put her in this position, maybe, but it shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone and it definately wasn't intentional on either side. She seems to be more a victim of circumstance. .

And before people start yelling at me just so you know I played baseball with my sister on my team. And there is a legitamate chance of contact as I can remember her playing third and basically knocking out a guy trying to steal third with her tag. So SSPX concerns are valid even if I don't necessarily agree with them.



The dispute is not over whether girls should play with boys its that they joined a league that had rules that they disagreed with. If they were so principaled then they shouldn't be playing in a league that allows for coed play. Its not fair to the rest of the teams or to the girls who might be asked or feel pressure to sit out because of it. There were mention in the article of other girls playing with boys in other sports in this league btw. It's their responsiblitly to know the rules. In fairness though to the SSPXers this all might of been the call of one person, the coach. Maybe his players and their parents thought it was a bad call. So we really cant say that all members of this school are a party to this.
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  #131  
Old May 12, '12, 10:59 am
DJK100 DJK100 is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by LucyLight View Post
The dispute is not over whether girls should play with boys its that they joined a league that had rules that they disagreed with. If they were so principaled then they shouldn't be playing in a league that allows for coed play. Its not fair to the rest of the teams or to the girls who might be asked or feel pressure to sit out because of it. There were mention in the article of other girls playing with boys in other sports in this league btw. It's their responsiblitly to know the rules. In fairness though to the SSPXers this all might of been the call of one person, the coach. Maybe his players and their parents thought it was a bad call. So we really cant say that all members of this school are a party to this.
Irregardless, The league they joined knew their stance, I am sure, and still let them join. So at best it is equal fault. Besides it seems like the SSPX is looking to have their studentds play as well so why exclude themsleves. What difference does it make to anyone for them to forfeit a game and uphold their beliefs particularly when everyone knows what was going to happen and let them join the league anyway. No one is hurt in that situation. That is why I don't get why everyone is in such an uproar and citing "rule."

By they way I disagree, I think the first posts were based on sexisim rather than the "rules of the league." I am not sure if you completely read my previous post because you don't know when they joined this league and what the circumstances were surrounding it.
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  #132  
Old May 12, '12, 3:06 pm
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Julia Mae Julia Mae is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Nimzovik View Post
Numerals mine.

1) a, I should think that the numbers of injustice is not the issue so much as the injustice itself. Injustices regarding all.
b, Indeed, If we should talk numbers then let us consider this: How many men have essentially fulfilled the role of slave (talk about being discommoded!) by being forced to be the 'Primary Material Provider' instead of being able to stay at home and enjoy his children? Ahemmmmmmmmmmm?
Right. Because that's what men really wanted. You'd think they would have been happy when we wanted to go to work instead of writing reams of letters to the editor about how emasculating it all was.

Men have always been perfectly free to find a professional to marry and stay home and raise their children.
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  #133  
Old May 12, '12, 3:09 pm
psr13 psr13 is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by sedonaman View Post
Must EVERY male activity involve the female? Can't boys engage in an activity where they can relate without some pushy female crying that her rights are being denied?

There was a girl on my son's hockey team. The enlightened view would see nothing wrong with it, but she also played in a girls league, one in which no boy was allowed. Is that right?
I agree. They probably wouldn't let a boy play on a softball team. I do have issues with boy's and girl's hockey, though, because for some reason the powers that be made girl's/women's hockey non-contact. That is annoying.
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  #134  
Old May 12, '12, 3:15 pm
psr13 psr13 is offline
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by Dale_M View Post
That argument would apply if we were talking about intramural sporta. But we are discussing interscholastic teams.

The two schools discussed in the news article belong to the small schools division of their league. Lack of resources is likely the reason for having girls softball in junior high, but not making it available in high school.
Then don't play. Baseball and softball are two different sports, and training for them is actually quite different. One should not jump from one to the other at such a late age. She could play on a travel team.
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  #135  
Old May 12, '12, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent

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Originally Posted by He Man View Post
Let girls play with other girls, and boys play with boys. Comingling only hurts girls, in most cases.
Really? I don't recall the study.

I spent the day with my daughter and I told her about this thread, how it's like a time-warp back to 1964. I'm not refighting this war, I did it starting at age 14. Once, when I was writing a column for a local paper on women's issues, I defined feminism. I am a feminist. This is what that means:

"A feminist is someone who believes opportunities, privileges and rewards should be based on ability, talent and performance."

The problem is: the people with the power (men) believe it should be given to whoever has the biggest stick. So, we had to have legislation. But I don't care that much anymore.

Carry on.
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