What did the Pope mean when he said this?

AnthonySorensen · #1 May 8, '12, 11:37 pm

"Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism"

What does that actually mean?

Hokomai · #2 May 9, '12, 1:33 am

This is from a Theological Commission statement in 2004, before he was Pope. The meaning is clear: every living thing is related by descent, and the statement postulates that this implies descent from a single organism. Whether this means am individual organism, or a 'species' is not stated. This is standard science. The existence of shared genetic material establishes the fact of common descent and, therefore, evolution of species one from the other. The processes by which this occurs are complex, and, as was pointed out int he 2004 statement, still under debate.

AnthonySorensen · #3 May 9, '12, 1:45 am

OK so then he is clearly not including man in this statement. Judging by your response.

Hokomai · #4 May 9, '12, 1:54 am

Of course he is. Why would you think otherwise?

AnthonySorensen · #5 May 9, '12, 2:01 am

Catholics believe God created man. How can we simultaneously believe that God created man and that we evolved from a monkey?

**Dale_M** · #6 May 9, '12, 2:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonySorensen

Catholics believe God created man. How can we simultaneously believe that God created man and that we evolved from a monkey?

The process of how God created man is not known to us. However, there is no reason He couldn't have used the process of evolution, providing an immortal soul to man which sets him apart from the animals from which he evolved.

Quoting from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Quote:

II. "BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE"

362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."229 Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.

363 In Sacred Scripture the term "soul" often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But "soul" also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of "the image of God": it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p1s2c1p6.htm

thewanderer · #7 May 9, '12, 2:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonySorensen

Catholics believe God created man. How can we simultaneously believe that God created man and that we evolved from a monkey?

There is more than one theory of exactly how this would work out in the details, but it essentially comes down to a recognition that man is composed of both soul and body and that it is possible for God to create the world insuch a way that the material part of a man could come from such a line of evolution while the soul of each person is created in a unique act of creation at their conception. The church has declared that such a theistic understanding of evolution is not contrary to her teachings.

Here is a link to the CAF Apologists answer to this question

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...ight=evolution

AnthonySorensen · #8 May 9, '12, 2:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewanderer

There is more than one theory of exactly how this would work out in the details, but it essentially comes down to a recognition that man is composed of both soul and body and that it is possible for God to create the world insuch a way that the material part of a man could come from such a line of evolution while the soul of each person is created in a unique act of creation at their conception. The church has declared that such a theistic understanding of evolution is not contrary to her teachings.

Here is a link to the CAF Apologists answer to this question

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...ight=evolution

That link was very helpful. Thank you.

Hokomai · #9 May 9, '12, 2:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonySorensen

Catholics believe God created man. How can we simultaneously believe that God created man and that we evolved from a monkey?

One of the things that makes Catholicism more interesting than many other Christianities is that it considers that theology must be built on, or at least around, facts. It does not deny them. Incidentally, humans are the relatives of monkeys, but they are not our ancestors. we share common ancestors with them, as we do with lichens, plants and blue whales.

**grannymh** · #10 May 9, '12, 1:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonySorensen

"Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism"

What does that actually mean?

In order to understand a single out-of-context sentence, one needs to review the surrounding paragraphs.

atheistgirl · #11 May 11, '12, 4:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonySorensen

How can we simultaneously believe that God created man and that we evolved from a monkey?

You shouldn't believe we evolved from a monkey, because we didn't! We share a common ancestor with them, and we're related to them, but we didn't evolve from them!

Sarah x

timotheos · #12 May 11, '12, 9:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokomai

One of the things that makes Catholicism more interesting than many other Christianities is that it considers that theology must be built on, or at least around, facts. It does not deny them. Incidentally, humans are the relatives of monkeys, but they are not our ancestors. we share common ancestors with them, as we do with lichens, plants and blue whales.

I for one could not be Catholic if our understanding about the natural world was not dynamically reconciled with the reality of God and what he reveals to us.

It's a sort of unfolding thing, not subject to our designs but requiring a commitment to discovery of truth and ultimate meaning.

Timothysis · #13 May 12, '12, 4:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

You shouldn't believe we evolved from a monkey, because we didn't! We share a common ancestor with them, and we're related to them, but we didn't evolve from them!

Sarah x

You obviously don't know any of my family members!!!

atheistgirl · #14 May 12, '12, 5:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothysis

You obviously don't know any of my family members!!!

I should invite you guys over to stay for a weekend. It sounds like your family would get on so well with mine

Sarah x

ChristTheWay · #15 May 14, '12, 4:55 am

Virtually does not mean really. And second of all genetic similarities between us and animals means it's plausible that we came from the same substance. We must remember the God is spirit and He is the creator of the physical universe as it is written: "In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters." Then elsewhere it is written: "God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth. And the evening and morning were the fifth day.And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good."

And in the creation account in Genesis 2 God created man out of the earth.

So man is part of the physical universe which was created by God who was before the universe. At the mystery of the incarnation God chose to be part of his own creation motivated by love to save sinful humanity.

So please consider this.