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  #16  
Old May 10, '12, 6:56 pm
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choliks choliks is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

I pray that Our Lord would let the Eastern Churches' identity be fully restored and embraced soon.

Blessed Mary, Bearer of Our Lord, pray for us.
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  #17  
Old May 10, '12, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

The reason that the Latinizations remain is popular piety. Has anyone here tried to herd cats?
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  #18  
Old May 10, '12, 7:24 pm
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Cavaradossi Cavaradossi is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
Hello, and good morning my friend!

Thank you for referencing the written work of Fr. Korolevsky, with which I am familiar yet have not yet committed to reading in full.

While I do not entirely agree with the premise of a self imposed Latinization (it would be hard for an American Ruthenian with an appreciation for modern history to do so), the concept of the "Latinization of the mind" is certainly credible and virtually proven. Our Bishops are well aware of the challenges associated with reversing this course, as the adult members of their flocks have been engrained with a "status quo".

As an example, I recall the recent thread here regarding Sayedna Samra's pastoral instructions on "First Communion" celebrations in the Melkite Church. The reactions here and among the faithful speak volumes as to the effect of Latinization even to present times. By that, I also mean that some of the "motives of the mind (and heart)" for ECs to want to retain Latinizations were well highlighted by the reactions and comments of several non ECs in that discussion.

We all want to be included, but its hard to feel included when you are different. We learn that as children in the schoolyard.

That said, I do believe the pendulum finally swung the other way in 1996, with the Curia pushing it that way. There are credible stories of the Congregation for Eastern Churches coming down hard on EC bishops for not moving fast enough after the promulgation of the Eastern Code of Canons, which prompted the issuance of The Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

So, on a positive note, Rome is now fully in board and actually pushing the issue, a far cry from where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.

Now the bishops and clergy must be brave enough to follow through, for the sake of the upcoming generation and beyond.

My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his "First Holy Communion". He wrote back "I already get Communion - I need penance".

Didn't Christ tell us that we should be as children?
How sweet and innocuously honest. Many years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
The saddest thing is that on the ground level Eastern Catholics still meet with so much internal and external resistance to de-Latinization, mostly from well-intentioned, albeit ill-informed, faithful - be they Roman Catholic or Eastern.

That sounds like quite the event at your parish! My son is being received into the Church this Sunday. We're very much looking forward to it.
Many years! I'll try to keep both of your young ones in my prayers as they approach these important milestones
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  #19  
Old May 10, '12, 9:31 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his "First Holy Communion". He wrote back "I already get Communion - I need penance".
This made me giggle. Hearing the words, "I need penance", spoken by a child. Oh, out of the mouths of lambs....
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  #20  
Old May 10, '12, 10:09 pm
Domnall Domnall is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Please pardon my ignorance here, but I have a question on de-Latinization and the laity.

For example I as a Roman Catholic (granted I'm contemplating becoming Eastern Catholic) generally recite a Byzantine Compline at night rather than the one from the LOTH. So, what is the feeling of, say, Eastern Catholics saying the rosary in private?

I totally get where it can be an issue with the liturgy and the Sacred Mysteries, but what about in the private sphere?

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  #21  
Old May 10, '12, 10:14 pm
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choliks choliks is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Yikes! Several posts down, and only now I realized the typographical error in my title. My apologies.
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  #22  
Old May 10, '12, 10:48 pm
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaradossi View Post
Many years! I'll try to keep both of your young ones in my prayers as they approach these important milestones
Thanks, Cavaradossi. I know my kids could certainly use all the prayers they can get. With me as their father, they're bound to suffer some embarrassments and disappointments; Lord have mercy!
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  #23  
Old May 10, '12, 10:58 pm
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Cavaradossi Cavaradossi is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
Thanks, Cavaradossi. I know my kids could certainly use all the prayers they can get. With me as their father, they're bound to suffer some embarrassments and disappointments; Lord have mercy!
We were once having a studio party at my voice teacher's house. He called his youngest son, somewhere around six to eight, to come greet all of us. His son refused and turned his back on us, to which our teacher responded, "look everybody, it's the back of Milo's head!" This of course, embarrassed his son greatly and sent him running off in frustration. Our teacher remarked, "the job of a father is to embarrass his children."
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But God, he says, is simple, and whatever attribute of Him you have reckoned as knowable is of His essence. But the absurdities involved in this sophism are innumerable. When all these high attributes have been enumerated, are they all names of one essence? St. Basil Letter 234
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  #24  
Old May 11, '12, 1:03 am
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choliks choliks is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaradossi View Post
We were once having a studio party at my voice teacher's house. He called his youngest son, somewhere around six to eight, to come greet all of us. His son refused and turned his back on us, to which our teacher responded, "look everybody, it's the back of Milo's head!" This of course, embarrassed his son greatly and sent him running off in frustration. Our teacher remarked, "the job of a father is to embarrass his children."
Thanks for the anecdote. It might be of use when my daughter grows up a bit.
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  #25  
Old May 11, '12, 5:28 am
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choliks View Post
Yikes! Several posts down, and only now I realized the typographical error in my title.
That's OK - we are all supposed to be Easter Churches!
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  #26  
Old May 12, '12, 12:24 pm
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TrueLight TrueLight is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus L View Post
I'm not saying that never happens Constantine, but in the Diocese where I live, when more Vatican approved Latin Masses were introduced, a number of people came back from the SSPX.
Exactly. There is no need for folks to leave and flock to the SSPX. Those who attend EF parishes and diocesan TLMs are already quite traditional in their thinking.

So what of the Eastern Catholics who actually like Latinizations. Do they face tremendous pressure in becoming de-latinized or do they have a choice?
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  #27  
Old May 12, '12, 1:24 pm
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Celticnovice Celticnovice is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domnall View Post
Please pardon my ignorance here, but I have a question on de-Latinization and the laity.

For example I as a Roman Catholic (granted I'm contemplating becoming Eastern Catholic) generally recite a Byzantine Compline at night rather than the one from the LOTH. So, what is the feeling of, say, Eastern Catholics saying the rosary in private?

I totally get where it can be an issue with the liturgy and the Sacred Mysteries, but what about in the private sphere?

I'm not an Eastern Catholic, but I believe they are free to say the rosary in private.
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  #28  
Old May 12, '12, 1:33 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celticnovice View Post
I'm not an Eastern Catholic, but I believe they are free to say the rosary in private.
We're free to say it in public too!
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  #29  
Old May 12, '12, 1:34 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celticnovice View Post
I'm not an Eastern Catholic, but I believe they are free to say the rosary in private.
Eastern canons.

CCEO Canon 17
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.
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  #30  
Old May 12, '12, 6:31 pm
Seamus L Seamus L is online now
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Default Re: When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

This year, while visiting a Ukrainian Catholic Church, I saw a posted announcement asking for donations for an orphanage in Ukraine. Among the items they were requesting, were rosaries along with other religious medals.

The rosary is as beloved in the East as it is the West.
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