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  #76  
Old May 10, '12, 6:40 pm
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livingwordunity livingwordunity is offline
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Default Re: Am I in heresy? Be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy5 View Post
PJM

I note that you quote Deuteronomy. Fine. But, honestly, there is much in Deuteronomy that is rarely if ever quoted. Take Deut. 21:18-21, for example. Parents are instructed to take a rebellious son, bring him to the elders at the gate, and have him stoned to death. Hm! Great teaching from scripture?

Or. read chapter 22. How a woman must not wear men's clothing. Gosh, I see that all the time at Mass. Or, how about verse 21: "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together." Etc,

Or chapter 22:20-21. If a woman is not a virgin at marriage she should be stoned to death.

And we could go on and on.

I worship the one true God and not scripture - well, certainly not the Old Testament which is full of genocide, brutality, plus plenty of myth. There are parts of the New Testament that are problems, too, as when Paul tells slaves to obey their masters and states that women should be silent in the churches. Women certainly read scriptures at Mass where I attend. Are that church and priest heretical, too?

I'm not nearly as concerned about doctrinal heresy as I am about pious arrogance, judgementalism, hypocrisy, lack of kindness, and bigotry.
God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament are not two different gods. The people of God are like a growing child with God as our Father. In the Old Testament the people of God were spiritually immature as a whole, so God was more about "don't do this" and "don't do that" and physical death is used as a sign of the spiritual death that sin can lead us to. The New Testament people of God were ready for deeper spiritual instructions on what to do. God became man, and Jesus raised the stakes and made it clear that we could end up in Heaven forever or in Hell forever depending on whether we choose good or evil. We need the Old Testament in order to understand and appreciate how God's law and his love are fulfilled in the New Testament.

Last edited by livingwordunity; May 10, '12 at 6:56 pm.
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  #77  
Old May 12, '12, 3:24 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Am I in heresy? Be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy5
I
I'm quite sure that God respects those who sincerely question teachings and practices of the Church. We should not think of the Church as a totalitarian organization that demands conformity.

I trust in God above all, a God of mercy who loves everybody, of every creed, color, culture and country.
Roy

You are Absolutely 100% incorrect in this personal understanding of YOURS!

Both the Bible and the RCC disagree completely with you and this "MEISM" position you express. I Am truly SORRY for you!

May God forgive and guide you!

pat/PJM
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  #78  
Old May 12, '12, 5:18 pm
Abu Abu is offline
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Default Re: Am I in heresy? Be honest.

Quote:
Roy5 #78
There are parts of the New Testament that are problems, too, as when Paul tells slaves to obey their masters and states that women should be silent in the churches. Women certainly read scriptures at Mass where I attend. Are that church and priest heretical, too?
Women cannot be priests and cannot preach in the Church – there are no problems here whatsoever, just the selfism and confusion of this poster.
Over the error on slaves, the facts need exposure, since this has been a favourite misconception. In Ephesians 6:5, 8 Paul is often quoted eagerly, but very seldom ver. 9: “Masters, do the same to them, and forbear threatening, knowing that He who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no, partiality with Him.” This equality before God encouraged the early Church to convert slaves – Pope Callistus (d. 236) had been a slave. With the demise of the Roman empire, the embrace of those in slavery continued and only ordination to the priesthood was denied.

Priests urged owners to free their slaves, and by the seventh century there was considerable evidence of unions of free men and female slaves. In 649 Clovis II, king of the Franks, married his British slave Clotilda. After his death, Clotilda campaigned to halt the slave trade and to redeem those in slavery. On her death she was declared a saint by the Church.
Quote:
I'm not nearly as concerned about doctrinal heresy as I am about pious arrogance, judgementalism, hypocrisy, lack of kindness, and bigotry.
It is colossal arrogance to be so little concerned about Christ’s mandate to follow His teaching and His Church – from whom did you get this fallacy?

This poster sure shows a huge indifference to Sacred Scripture – judgmental?

How should real Catholics and Christians judge everything? The Sacred Scriptures actually do mandate how from Christ Himself:
Christ and His Church’s Scriptures tell us:

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly." (Jn 7:24).

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them" (Mt 7:15, 16).

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them." (Mt 7:19-20).

"Test everything: retain what is good." (1Thess 5:21).

"The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone." (1 Cor 2:15).

"I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed..." (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).

"I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying." (1 Cor 10:15).

"Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 Jn 4:1).

"I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth." (Rev 3:16).

We can’t judge according to truth by being mesmerized by others and giving them adulation, but according to the teaching of Christ’s Church, Her Tradition and Her Scriptures.

It is very important not to judge a person’s guilt before God as commanded (Mt 7:1-5). We are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).
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  #79  
Old May 12, '12, 6:29 pm
Hadrianus Hadrianus is offline
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Default Re: Am I in heresy? Be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by followingtheway View Post
If I disagree with priestly-celibacy and an all-male priesthood. Would that be considered heresy? And be straight up with me, please.
In answer to the first point: No, it is not heretical to consider a married priesthood possible. It is against the immemorial tradition of the Latin rite, but hypothetically it could be considered.
And exceptions have been allowed for men already married to be ordained.

On point two: It is not heretical per se, but is what would be called "Haeresi proxima."Meaning that though it does not contradict a defined dogma, it is contrary to a definitive teaching of the Church, and is close to heresy, and if held tenaciously, certainly a sin as it would involve a serious dissent from the definitive teaching authority.

Now, I would add here, that I suspect few people who think women should be ordained really hold that as a "tenacious" opinion, but rather as a hypothetical, in which case no sin would be committed. It is an error, but not grave unless held in deliberate contempt of the
definitive teaching.
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  #80  
Old May 12, '12, 6:34 pm
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Re: Am I in heresy? Be honest.

If you disagree with the all-male priesthood then yes you are in heresy. Disagreeing with priestly celibacy is not heresy though because priestly celibacy is a discipline and not a doctrine.
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