NJ school exam's "secret" question angers parents - Page 2

OrdinaryMelkite · #16 May 12, '12, 5:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iheartcoffee

That kind of question opens up a LOT of issues, even if no one intended to collect too much info on a person. What if a student admits to abuse? The test grader has to report it and a lot of these tests are de-identified to make the grading fair. The grader would have to stop what he or she is doing and go through the entire process of trying to report the student to CPS and then CPS would need to get the name and info. THEN, they may go to all that trouble only to find out the student made it up because he or she didn't have any secrets that could provide material for a whole essay.

Great point.

OrdinaryMelkite · #17 May 12, '12, 5:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNC

True, unless people are finally realizing that the only information the constitution requires on the census is the number of people living in a residence. If that's the case, and they're not getting the info they want via the census, well then maybe...

Jon

LOL.

**JonNC** · #18 May 12, '12, 5:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Miah

Not true. Could I politely ask where you got this very wrong idea? Was it the Republican Congresswoman and presidential candidate Michele Bachmann and her famous interviews on FOX TV and in the Washington Times? I am just curious as to what the sources of bad info are that are misleading people out there. You might have got the bad info from the same source as Bachmann or whatever.

Anyway, this false factoid was exploded by the fact-checkers, who rated it a "pants on fire" falsehood when Bachmann said it. The facts:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-only-require/

Bachmann? lol

I filled my first "long-form" out in 1980, the first of three straight long forms. Everytime I've done it the same way: As you quoted the purpose of the census is limited to enumeration ofr apportionment and taxes. That's all. So that's what I have always given them, what the constitution says.
"Representation and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this Union, according to their respective numbers ... the actual enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct."

Jon

Jerry Miah · #19 May 12, '12, 5:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNC

Bachmann? lol

I filled my first "long-form" out in 1980, the first of three straight long forms. Everytime I've done it the same way: As you quoted the purpose of the census is limited to enumeration ofr apportionment and taxes. That's all. So that's what I have always given them, what the constitution says.
"Representation and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this Union, according to their respective numbers ... the actual enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct."

Jon

You said the Constitution "requires", the exact same language Bachmann used. Sorry, maybe you both got the same wrong idea from somewhere else.

Basically, the Constitution says Congress will count everybody (number in household) every ten years in such a way that Congress decides to do it. It does not mandate (or require) that the census is only for this.

As the analysis I pointed out says:

Quote:

We draw your attention to the last clause, "in such a manner as they shall by law direct." The "they" in that sentence refers to members of Congress. They write laws about the content of the Census and require that people answer the questions.

Even the very first census in 1790 included more than just the question of how many people lived in the household. According to a Census Bureau spokeswoman, the 1790 Census specifically asked about the number of free white males age 16 and over in order to assess the country’s military and industrial potential. That first Census also asked for the race and gender of household residents, and whether they were free or enslaved.

**JonNC** · #20 May 12, '12, 5:49 pm

Quote:

=Jerry Miah;9291785]You said the Constitution "requires", the exact same language Bachmann used. Sorry, maybe you both got the same wrong idea from somewhere else.

Yes. The Constitution.

Quote:

Basically, the Constitution says Congress will count everybody (number in household) every ten years in such a way that Congress decides to do it. It does not mandate (or require) that the census is only for this.

No, not basically. Exactly! Precisely!! It says the Congress shall count everyone. Every ten years.
It doesn't give Congress the power to do anything else. The power is not provided the government to require of us any other information.

Jon

Robertanthony · #21 May 12, '12, 5:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNC

"My family drove to the seashore in our SUV. We contributed to global warming by increasing our carbon footprint."

Jon

"As penance, we stopped at a windmill and worshipped Gaia on our way back"

**jmcrae** · #22 May 12, '12, 6:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertanthony

"As penance, we stopped at a windmill and worshipped Gaia on our way back"

On a more serious note, that child will receive an A+ in every subject, regardless of his actual performance, because he is obviously forward-thinking and energy efficient.

George Stegmeir · #23 May 12, '12, 6:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Miah

Sounds like a dumb mistake. But it's a little paranoid to think it's a plot to collect info.

My wife, rest her soul, was a professional educator for almost 30 years. During that time I learned that professional education bureaucrats do not make dumb mistakes. Everything they do is with serious intent. Their aim being to consolodate power. Knowlege is Power, no matter how it is collected.
My father gave me some excellent political advice many years ago: "Never sign any petition. The cause that may be popular today, that has everyone behind it, can bite you in the behind 20 or 30 years later and do you a serious personal hurt.
So, carefully watch out what your kids are getting in school. Do not forget that the people who were unpatriotic hippies (Most of them un-repentant) 40 years ago are now in charge of our public schools and universities!

Jerry Miah · #24 May 12, '12, 6:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNC

Yes. The Constitution.

No, not basically. Exactly! Precisely!! It says the Congress shall count everyone. Every ten years.
It doesn't give Congress the power to do anything else. The power is not provided the government to require of us any other information.

Jon

Hello? "...in such manner as they shall by law direct." That "manner" is up to Congress; and since the first census, only three years after the drafting of the Constitution, when the Founders were all still around overseeing it, asked more questions than just the number of household members (it had questions on the race and gender of them, too), we can see clearly that the household count was in no way mandated (required) to be the only question on the census. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

**JonNC** · #25 May 12, '12, 6:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Miah

Hello? "...in such manner as they shall by law direct." That "manner" is up to Congress; and since the first census, only three years after the drafting of the Constitution, when the Founders were all still around overseeing it, asked more questions than just the number of household members (it had questions on the race and gender of them, too), we can see clearly that the household count was in no way mandated (required) to be the only question on the census. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Yes. There are to get a count " in such manner as they shall by law direct." This clause says just that - determine a way to get a count. Not do other things, like ask how far I drive to work, how many bathrooms in my house, what my ethnicity/race is (and then not give me the choice that I am).

Jon

**JonNC** · #26 May 12, '12, 6:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

My wife, rest her soul, was a professional educator for almost 30 years. During that time I learned that professional education bureaucrats do not make dumb mistakes. Everything they do is with serious intent. Their aim being to consolodate power. Knowlege is Power, no matter how it is collected.
My father gave me some excellent political advice many years ago: "Never sign any petition. The cause that may be popular today, that has everyone behind it, can bite you in the behind 20 or 30 years later and do you a serious personal hurt.
So, carefully watch out what your kids are getting in school. Do not forget that the people who were unpatriotic hippies (Most of them un-repentant) 40 years ago are now in charge of our public schools and universities!

I am a public school teacher, and I watch very closely - and protect the kids and inform parents.

Jon

Allegra · #27 May 12, '12, 6:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

My wife, rest her soul, was a professional educator for almost 30 years. During that time I learned that professional education bureaucrats do not make dumb mistakes. Everything they do is with serious intent. Their aim being to consolodate power. Knowlege is Power, no matter how it is collected.
My father gave me some excellent political advice many years ago: "Never sign any petition. The cause that may be popular today, that has everyone behind it, can bite you in the behind 20 or 30 years later and do you a serious personal hurt.
So, carefully watch out what your kids are getting in school. Do not forget that the people who were unpatriotic hippies (Most of them un-repentant) 40 years ago are now in charge of our public schools and universities!

Why is it that only unpatiotic hippies are allowed to become teachers and school administrators? Couldn't any person who wants to become a teacher? If all the educators are unpatriotic hippies, why don't some well-meaning conservative individuals invest some time into molding our youth? What prevents them for going into teaching and leveling the playing field?

**JonNC** · #28 May 12, '12, 6:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allegra

Why is it that only unpatiotic hippies are allowed to become teachers and school administrators? Couldn't any person who wants to become a teacher? If all the educators are unpatriotic hippies, why don't some well-meaning conservative individuals invest some time into molding our youth? What prevents them for going into teaching and leveling the playing field?

PTL · #29 May 12, '12, 6:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Miah
Sounds like a dumb mistake. But it's a little paranoid to think it's a plot to collect info.

It is by design, not by accident. The shadow of the current big government must be stopped by this November!

Allegra · #30 May 12, '12, 7:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonNC

I'm quite relieved to hear that! Some people would have us believe that one had to be a slobering tree-hugger in order to work in a public school. I'm pretty sure one doesn't have to submit their political leanings in order to get a license to teach in any state. Principals and administrators are hired by a school board that is elected by the citizens the school district serves. That's right, folks! You, me, and anyone can run for their local school board and if they are elected, they call the shots. The school board has the highest authority over what goes on in the district. In most states, they even trump the dreaded union! I don't get the people who sit around and bemoan the falling of society due to inadequent public schools rather than get up and attend one of those open school board meetings and see for themself what can be done. Did you know that concerned citizens can speak at those meetings and express concerns and possible solutions?