Oppressive husbands

[joanofarc2008]

Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36

Maybe, If I understand the OP, her question has to do with how narcissists distort the Faith in order for it to be a tool of their narcissism?

A woman in that situation would need good pastoral care, and a competent attorney to help her with separation if necessary and with child custody and visitation.

There is a concept known as parental alienation syndrome.

A competent attorney should be able to bring that as evidence when determining custody and visitation.

My friend is separated and her children see their father through supervised visitation. That could be an option in dealing with a narcissist. There is also court ordered rehabilitation of the relationship with the father. They see a counselor and have law guardian to insure they are being treated properly

I think this restating the question very well. I also like this statement by the Bishops that centers around domestic violence but I believe is apropos to this topic.

[JacarandaPurple]

I have a friend dealing with exactly these kinds of issues. Trust me, his severe personality disorder came first, and then he found ways to use religion as a club afterward. Unfortunately, in her case, she has a CRMI "priest" and "bishop" routinely lying to her and betraying her, and helping her husband to subvert their children out of the Church, even to the point of re-performing sacraments and doing others without her permission. She has been more than respectful and reasonable in trying to deal honestly with them and to allow whatever she could in good conscience, and they have lied to her and manipulated her over and over again. (They promised they would "re-do" her kids Confirmations only conditionally, and she realized too late, in the middle of the service, that they were not. Her heart is broken that a sacrilege was performed on her children.) It is disgusting to see this sweet soul so abused by her husband (who tells the children their mother is a heretic and going to Hell, and they are not even allowed to pray for her unless it's for her to convert to their CRMI church) and to have people posing as men of God help him do it. She admits she did not choose well, but she never saw this coming.

Catholicism doesn't cause these issues. Abuse of it does.

For those who don't know what CRMI is, here is a link. They are sedevacantists. http://www.cmri.org/

[ladyofshalott]

Hi. One of the respondents said that a husband truly involved in parish ministry would not be abusive, or something to that effect. I disagree with that. I have read several articles, and experienced myself first-hand as the wife of an abusive man involved in parish ministry, that often a spouse (especially husbands, it seems) can divert attention and energy that should go to their wife and family toward the ministry instead. The positive affirmation they receive from this ministry can become exhilarating, whereas life at home is mixed with financial concerns, chores, stresses, needs, etc. Parish ministry is often where a person's gifts shine in a public way, and people tend to be on their best behavior in public, whereas being a loving husband and father requires self-sacrifice and home is often where the worst behavior comes to the fore. Before you know it, the ministry takes more and more of his time, the wife's needs become more and more of a nagging burden, the children get hardly any of his time, all in the name of "serving the church." One article I read mentioned that divorce rates among Catholics involved in a large number of "apostolates" is higher than among Catholics who are less involved in these external activities. In my opinion, the best way to serve the Church is to focus on spouse, family, and home. Yes, the church does need laypeople to help with some things. But we have to guard against pride as well, the idea that only "we" can do a certain task or fill a certain role, even if it leaves our family relationships limping along. When there is a loving, close, trusting relationship with one's spouse, and one's children are happy and healthy, this is a better evangelizing tool than ignoring wife and family to join yet another committee or club or ministry. After all, that is the primary commitment: the marriage vow.

[EasterJoy]

Originally Posted by Rita77

How do we teach/change men like this to become better husbands and fathers?
if a wife does leave a husband like this how does she prevent his narcissistic brainwashing upon the children? (more then likely he will get some custody).

What is the verse immediately preceding "Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Eph. 5:22)? It is this: "Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ." (Eph. 5:21) That section of Holy Scripture goes on to say that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church!

Better catechesis, all around. What you are describing is a warping of the faith. It is wrong, wrong, wrong. If you meet a woman who does not get that, her pastor can usually straighten her out, and she will perceive that he has the authority to interpret the faith better than her husband.

What can an abused spouse do to prevent an ex from brainwashing the children against her? It is a widespread problem, and has lots of answers. Staying with him isn't one of them. Forcing children to watch his abuse of her is abuse of their children. It cannot be tolerated.

[EasterJoy]

Originally Posted by ladyofshalott

Hi. One of the respondents said that a husband truly involved in parish ministry would not be abusive, or something to that effect. I disagree with that....

I agree with you. If a priest could abuse a child, then ministry in the Church obviously does not innoculate a man against secretly preying upon those who are more vulnerable, and even using his ministry to avoid suspicion. Sometimes a position of authority even emboldens a person to think he or she is above reproach. That's an old one out of the devil's playbook.

[white sheep]

When I feel like oppressing my wife I just let her make her own decisions and she oppresses herself.

[EasterJoy]

Originally Posted by white sheep

When I feel like oppressing my wife I just let her make her own decisions and she oppresses herself.

Don't sell yourself short. You sound as if you're helping in that direction in ways you don't even imagine.

[AnneTeresa]

There are some men like this who use their authority to abuse. My dad was like this. It got very tied up in the catholic church for us as children. All but one of us (the oldest male who became just like my dad) left the church. I don't think the church "made" him that way but that's how it played out in our home and the church did nothing to stop or correct it.

I returned to the catholic church recently and it was hell having to work through separating the church from my dad--was it my dad who was oppressive or the church? Which part was which?

Of course that was an older generation where male/female roles and authority lines were unyielding, unlike today. So I can't comment on today. But no woman should be forced to live like that and fortunately, from what I understand, the catholic church does not say that a woman has to stay with a husband like that. Unfortunately, the children will need to work through this their whole lives though as there are repercussions from living in this kind of home.

[Luna Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by white sheep

When I feel like oppressing my wife I just let her make her own decisions and she oppresses herself.

Like when she made the decision to marry?

[Serap]

IMO, this has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. All religions are guilty of using their teachings to opress people. Muslim men are guilty of it too, when it comes to wives and daughters. St. Paul used to talk about the treatment of slaves and slavery was acceptable when Christ walked the earth. Narcissists are in every religion and will use whatever tools they have to justify their behaviour.

A woman in this predicament would need to seek a good priest and get support from family and friends. This is hard b/c narcissists are very good at fooling people. As for the children, the wife would have to do her best to manage her husband's words. It would be hard for the woman to see that being submissive does not mean being abused.

My father is a narcissist and while he badmouthed my mother regularly, by the time I was 19 years old, I began to see things for what they were and I began to hate my father for what he did to my mother.

[ladyofshalott]

Wow, white sheep. You are breathtakingly arrogant. I'm sure your wife feels very loved and affirmed, married to a man who thinks she is incapable of making an intelligent decision. I'm sure she feels very blessed.

[Serap]

Originally Posted by white sheep

When I feel like oppressing my wife I just let her make her own decisions and she oppresses herself.

What did you mean by this? I think people are misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

Written text has a habit of doing that

[white sheep]

Originally Posted by Serap

What did you mean by this? I think people are misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

Written text has a habit of doing that

Mostly it was a joke. But there's some truth to it as she does seem to find a way to make her life more difficult than it has to be in just about every area. I see a lot of women do this. If she'd listen to me more her life would be much easier, but alas, I give her too much freedom. I've always told her she can do whatever she wants, for the most part. If I would only oppress her a little, she'd be much happier and our lives would be easier. I'm resisting the urge to become an oppressor, but it seems like a very reasonable and logical avenue to take.

[LSK]

Originally Posted by white sheep

When I feel like oppressing my wife I just let her make her own decisions and she oppresses herself.

Oh I would disagree - I think you are doing a great job of being an opressor.

[EasterJoy]

Originally Posted by white sheep

...I see a lot of women do this...

Says the man who claims in another thread that he wished some hard-working women could be put into a museum, so he'd have a chance to see one.

Originally Posted by white sheep

...If she'd listen to me more her life would be much easier, but alas, I give her too much freedom....

I think he meant exactly what everybody took him to mean. That is a "joke" that gets very old very fast.

This is why I tell my nieces and nephews to never marry someone who sees them or that they see as a "fixer upper". If you don't respect and value the judgement of the person who is going to be running your household with you and parenting your children, it is going to be a very long haul.

Personal criticism (which includes attacks on the person's character) and contempt (which includes mocking humor) are also two of the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" that are highly predictive of divorce. The others are defensiveness and stonewalling. Of all these, however, research has found that contempt is the most harmful. These are very bad habits in anyone who hopes to remain married for a lifetime. Marriage research has found that couples who habitually engage in these patterns divorce over 90% of the time.

Oppressive husbands find excuses to engage in criticism and contempt as a way to avoid loving their wives as themselves, as Ephesians teaches that a Christian husband must, if he is to imitate Christ and be pleasing to God.