A bishop consecrated without papal approval. Valid?

JD27076 · #1 May 12, '12, 12:19 pm

This story here says that Father Paul Lei was concecrated without Papal Approval in China.

If he was a valid priest, is he a valid bishop since the bishops ordained him? Does he need papal approval for this to be valid?

Thank you.

ChrisRedfield47 · #2 May 12, '12, 1:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD27076

This story here says that Father Paul Lei was concecrated without Papal Approval in China.

If he was a valid priest, is he a valid bishop since the bishops ordained him? Does he need papal approval for this to be valid?

Thank you.

Well im thinking that if the Vatican has condemned it saying this Bishop has no right to govern the diocese, then it has no right to do so. I wouldn't be sure if he was a "valid bishop" because the article mentions little about this being "valid" or not. Though if he has no right to govern that diocese, and has no particular territory assigned to him, and the Vatican does not approve his ordination, then he probably isn't a valid Bishop. But since im not sure, maybe someone else could address the question better.

**Dale_M** · #3 May 12, '12, 1:23 pm

Unfortunately, the consecration of the new bishop is valid, but illicit. The Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association does have apostolic succession, despite not being in communion with Rome.

I say "unfortunately" because there is a real risk of schism, which the Vatican has been trying to avoid. It has been walking a tightrope of supporting the "underground" Catholics in China, while trying to coax the bishops, priests and worshipers of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association back into communion with Rome.

The results of coaxing has been mixed. Developments looked very positive for awhile, but the recent unauthorized consecrations of bishops despite official Vatican disapproval have been setbacks to healing the split.

L Marshall · #4 May 12, '12, 2:22 pm

China's not exactly on speaking terms with Rome right now, due to all sorts of things like that. More or less there are two groups who claim to be the Catholic Church there right now. The Chinese government reserves the right to appoint all bishops, and the ones they have approved and appointed make up their own church, which isn't in communion with the Papacy. The actual Catholic church (one holy, catholic, apostolic et al) is underground and works without the government's approval.

**po18guy** · #5 May 12, '12, 3:12 pm

Canon law will have the final word, but here is a link to the levels of holy orders from about.com

http://catholicism.about.com/od/beli...oly_Orders.htm

porthos11 · #6 May 13, '12, 8:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD27076

This story here says that Father Paul Lei was concecrated without Papal Approval in China.

If he was a valid priest, is he a valid bishop since the bishops ordained him? Does he need papal approval for this to be valid?

Thank you.

Valid, but illicit. It's a serious offence, so serious that both the consecrating Bishop and the one who receives the illegal ordination are automatically excommunicated.

curlycool89 · #7 May 13, '12, 9:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by porthos11

Valid, but illicit. It's a serious offence, so serious that both the consecrating Bishop and the one who receives the illegal ordination are automatically excommunicated.

Yes, valid but illicit.

How much blame they bear however may be up for debate. This is likely not some situation where a valid bishop just decided to consecrate a priest and they both went along with it. The CPCA has a history of forceful consecrations, so in all likelihood neither the bishop nor the priest had any real choice in the matter.

The CPCA is really the worst thing that can happen because it is nearly de facto a separate Church. You could argue that it would be a better situation if the Church was outright banned (like in former communist countries) and underground.