Opus Dei

[Julia Mae]

Originally Posted by jaaraf

Not all members of Opus Dei are intellectuals. I know of an associate in England who works as a maid. In my country, there are members of the Work who are fishermen, security guards, hairdressers, seamstresses, housekeeping staff.

No one said all members of Opus Dei are intellectuals.

[AmazingLove]

Originally Posted by number2wilkins

i'm actually reading Opus Dei by John Allen right now

picked it up at my local library, just started chapter 2, so far it seems a solid, unbiased look at the organization..

i say, check it out!

Thank you for another recommendation! I'll surely look for it in our local bookstores

[baker22]

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

IMHO, anyone who believe they may have a vocation needs to go to their Diocese's vocation director and discuss the variety of options they have.

Since everyone has a vocation, the offices should be pretty full if we all follow this message
Sorry, just wanted to be difficult for a minute :P

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

Opus Dei is secret by their own rules, if you know many people in Opus Dei, then either you are a member or you have met people who are part of the public face of the group. They are known because they are intended to be known.

This sounds more like a conspiracy theory than something based on fact ... have you heard this or experienced this somewhere?

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

Their mandate is to be, in their own words "hidden leaven" in society. Their goal is to establish Opus Dei intellectuals as the guides of society. Opus Dei also says that it is not responsible for the "apostolates" of it's members. Yet, by their rules, every member is required to reveal all to his director and take advice about how to run his apostolate and assist other members in the success of their apostolates. Also, by their rules, they do not reveal they are part of Opus Dei (unless specifically allowed) or wear an insignia or do anything to identify themselves.

I think you're missing the point. Spiritual direction is intended to help you improve your spirituality. How can a director do this if they do not know you? It isn't required to reveal all, but how can you be helped if you don't? Certainly, I don't reveal every little thing to my director, but that's more an issue of time, and his direction would be much better if we had more of it!



-I am affiliated with, but not a member of, Opus Dei. However, I am looking to join in the coming months (so you know where I'm coming from).

[AmazingLove]

Do you also have more books to recommend about Opus Dei?

[HereIam108]

Originally Posted by HailStarofSea

They are just as objective as the Opus Dei website. Every organization has its detractors, people who have been hurt by their dealings with the organization, and supporters, people who have benefited. To make a fair assessment, you have to consider justice for both sides. The best way for people who support Opus Dei to rebute ODAN is by working to change practices so fewer people will have negative experiences.

You will read the same thing stated about Opus Dei as stated by ODAN in less direct terms by well respected Catholics who have done investigations, such as Fr. James Martin, S.J. http://www.americamagazine.org/conte...in-opusdei.cfm and John Allen, Jr, Senior Correspondent of National Catholic Reporter.

It is frequently encouraged in Opus Dei not to read anything spiritual outside of St. Josemaria Escriva or a few other works. Anyone involved needs to keep in touch with the thinking of the rest of the Church to make sure that they are on solid theological ground as much of what you will get from Opus Dei is by lay people without any sort of decent theological training or respomsibility to canon law. It seems similar to Legionarries of Christ, where spiritual directors are now only called spiritual guides because of incompetence.

I have become acquainted with Opus Dei for some time now (though I am not a member), and the people there are one of the most faithful Catholics that I know. I have read some things in ODAN and most of them are just sensationalize negative sentiments of people who are not comfortable with the spirituality of Opus Dei. From what I am seeing in Opus Dei, what they are teaching (sacrifice, sanctification, mortification, etc.) are in fact taught by other religious orders as well. Also, if we read about the lives of most saints we can see
how well they also follow the things that I have mentioned. Thus, Opus Dei is just sticking to the rules- to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

As faithful Catholics, we should ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit to discern the truth about the things that we read MOST especially when it concerns moral and faith issues.

You have also cited an article written in the National Catholic Reporter. However, as far as I have read in traditional Catholic blogs in America, the Nat'l Catholic Reporter is not exactly the place where you go to for insights or advice on the Faith because as what can be seen in its past records, more than once it has written something contrary to the faith and to the authority of the Church.

God bless you.

[AmazingLove]

For the Opus Dei members: are you required to recite the Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary everyday including your recollections? What does Cooperator do? What do Cooperators need to contribute to Opus Dei?

[MomaMary8]

Originally Posted by AmazingLove

For the Opus Dei members: are you required to recite the Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary everyday including your recollections? What does Cooperator do? What do Cooperators need to contribute to Opus Dei?

I can only answer the cooperator question. As a cooperator we are asked to pray daily for The Work (Opus Dei) and asked if I could contribute to the finances that support our local women's center. The amount suggested to me, as a housewife, was perhaps the loose change I found over the course of a month or the money I might spend on coffee.

[HailStarofSea]

Originally Posted by HereIam108

I have become acquainted with Opus Dei for some time now (though I am not a member), and the people there are one of the most faithful Catholics that I know. I have read some things in ODAN and most of them are just sensationalize negative sentiments of people who are not comfortable with the spirituality of Opus Dei. From what I am seeing in Opus Dei, what they are teaching (sacrifice, sanctification, mortification, etc.) are in fact taught by other religious orders as well. Also, if we read about the lives of most saints we can see
how well they also follow the things that I have mentioned. Thus, Opus Dei is just sticking to the rules- to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

As faithful Catholics, we should ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit to discern the truth about the things that we read MOST especially when it concerns moral and faith issues.

You have also cited an article written in the National Catholic Reporter. However, as far as I have read in traditional Catholic blogs in America, the Nat'l Catholic Reporter is not exactly the place where you go to for insights or advice on the Faith because as what can be seen in its past records, more than once it has written something contrary to the faith and to the authority of the Church.

God bless you.

Saying "these people are not comfortable with the spirituality" of Opus Dei is inaccurate. Opus Dei gives a lot of advice that has nothing to do with sacrifice, sanctification, and mortification - i.e. tells you who to date, tells you to completely stop all spiritual reading, tells you the career to choose, etc. etc. However, this does not come from Catholic teaching, i.e. the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius or from moral theology, it is just personal opinion from someone with little training. Often it is logically inconsistent. The cognitive dissonance required in taking this advice isn't sound for one's mental health.

Why are these examples so typical in Opus Dei? From ODAN:

Towards the End of my Opie days: The director’s Director of the Region had “suggested” I switch majors in college so I’d have more time for their “apostolates” in the future. I did, with a resulting plummet of grades, failing/dropping classes for the first time ever. Prior to changing majors, I was on the Dean’s Honor List (=3.2 gpa or better) 3 out of 4 semesters, while afterwards I only made it once out of 5 semesters. My eccentricities became more pronounced: what had been perfectionism leading me to excel above peers became scrupulosity, where every tingling of resentment of my trapped predicament in Opus Dei was damning, every thought was as bad as if I’d carried it out in deed, and every sexual stirring switched my soul from “heaven-bound certified” to “going to hell!” until I could switch it back by making a “Confession”. Desire to please authority figures turned into trying to trip a fellow student on the stairs in order to “meet him” and thereby invite him to an Opus Dei event. Being able to have friends just for the sake of enjoying each other’s company gave way to “friendship” in service of converting someone to be a numerary—that is, I was trying to manipulate my “friends” to be what I thought they should be rather than enjoy them for who they were. And worst of all, that ol’ elusive “ego” (=narcissism: sense of entitlement and superiority to others) became exaggerated in the oddest way: I somehow held on to a sense of superiority over non-Opies, while at the same time feeling deep shame for my resentment of Opus Dei’s control over me, feeling as if I therefore had no right to exist, let alone speak or follow my own personal ideas and dreams.

These are common experiences. Failing classes and losing sight of the true meaning of love and friendship (i.e. this girl starts to see the purpose of friendship as converting people to numeraries) are not saintly behaviors.

From the John Allen book recommended even by the Opus Dei membets in this thread:

On the charge of youth and inexperience, some inside Opus Dei plead "guilty," especially in earlier periods of the group's history when it was not uncommon for a director to be in his early twenties. In some cases, members admit, youthful zeal outstripped a director's capacity to appreciate the human complexity of a given situation.

[HailStarofSea]

More from John Allen's book.

Tim whistled in 1986. "My first two years in Opus Dei were like a honeymoon. I felt so close to God and to my brother numeraries. I remember pinching myself to make sure it was real, I couldn't believe life could be so good," he said. Then, he said, something began to change. The pressures of completing his professional training while also "doing aposolate", meaing working with youths and being available to the needs of his Opus Dei family, were overwhelming. He had a breakdown. As part of that experience, his homosexual feelings "returned with a vengence," he said. Opus Dei put him in touch with a Catholic therapist, and eventually Tim reached the conclusion that it would be best if he left. "I believe the feeling was mutual," he said. In 1990, he moved into his father's house, and on March 19, 1991, when he didn't renew his contract with Opus Dei, his exit was official.

What is Tim's evaluation of the experience today?

"I have mixed feelings... a love/hate thing," he said. "Overally my experience was positive, but I think there were some really unhealthy things, too. If I had to distill it down to the essentials, I'd say the sanctifiction of work and family life, the study of the teachings and traditions of the Church, and the universal call to holiness are the best parts of Opus Dei. The ascetisim in their spirituality, however, I think is dangerous. I think it is too negative and encourages one to be too hard on himself. The lifestyle is too controlled and rigid. I stopped thinking for myself and left it up to my directors because I couldn't trust my intuition."

So if ODAN is just "sensationalized negative experiences" then why are the ODAN experiences so similar to those in John Allen's book that Opus Dei recommends?

If you are sincere when you write "God bless you", then you will be encouraging Opus Dei to establish enforceable rules and guidelines so that spiritual directors clearly distinguish between their opinion and Catholic teaching. When people are young and inexperienced, they should be well supervised and trained as well as able to encourage people to think for themselves in doubtful situations if they are going to take upon themselves the responsibility to decide if people should marry, career choice, etc. Otherwise, they should make it clear that Opus Dei's spiritual direction cannot be seen in the same light as the spiritual direction of Catholic teaching in that obedience is healthy or safe.

[jaaraf]

Originally Posted by AmazingLove

Do you also have more books to recommend about Opus Dei?

This blogger just wrote a book. He is a Catholic convert who is NOT an Opus Dei member, a diocesan director for evangelization and he talk about how any Catholic can benefit from the spirituality of Opus Dei.
http://ericsammons.com/blog/2011/07/...-for-everyone/

[jaaraf]

Originally Posted by HailStarofSea

Saying "these people are not comfortable with the spirituality" of Opus Dei is inaccurate. Opus Dei gives a lot of advice that has nothing to do with sacrifice, sanctification, and mortification - i.e. tells you who to date, tells you to completely stop all spiritual reading, tells you the career to choose, etc. etc. However, this does not come from Catholic teaching, i.e. the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius or from moral theology, it is just personal opinion from someone with little training. Often it is logically inconsistent. The cognitive dissonance required in taking this advice isn't sound for one's mental health.

Why are these examples so typical in Opus Dei? From ODAN:


These are common experiences. Failing classes and losing sight of the true meaning of love and friendship (i.e. this girl starts to see the purpose of friendship as converting people to numeraries) are not saintly behaviors.

From the John Allen book recommended even by the Opus Dei membets in this thread:

This is probably a case-to-case basis. I'm an associate. I joined at age twenty, when I was finishing my undergraduate degree in biology. The directress asked me about my professional plans, and I said I was going to medical school, and might train in the US. She just said that if I train there, I should be ready to adjust culturally. Several circumstances made me decide to do further training locally (family members with health problems, the extra cost of the exams). I chose my specialty without consulting my directors.. I just told them this was what I was doing. I affiliated myself to the clinic and hospital where I now work without asking the directors. I made the decisions from suggestiona of people I already know professionally.
Regarding dating for supernumeraries, I know at least one who is not dating at all while focusing on a career, and there's a friend of mine who did online dating and found her husband that way. Another supernumerary I know thinks online matchmaking sites are way out of her league, so she does not even try it. It doesn't seem like they are being told whom to date. There's also a supernumerary in London whose blog I read who was dating an atheist.

[jaaraf]

The instrumentalization of friendships must be a case to case basis as well. I have friends who have been my friends since before I met Opus Dei, and I never felt the need to turn them into numeraries. I have friends who tell me to stop inviting them because they are not interested, and I do stop inviting them and, wonder of wonders, we are still friends. I have friends who initially attended activities at the Center of Opus Dei, then decided that being involved in the parish or a charismatic community is their place. They stop attending Opus Dei activities, yet we are still friends. I value the freedom of my friends regarding the manner they want to serve our Lord, in whatever vocation God calls them, and its fine by me if the spirituality of Opus Dei is not for them.

[jaaraf]

Originally Posted by AmazingLove

For the Opus Dei members: are you required to recite the Office/Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary everyday including your recollections? What does Cooperator do? What do Cooperators need to contribute to Opus Dei?

If I'm not mistaken, only the priests reads the Breviary. Cooperators contribute with their prayers, said daily for Opus Dei, alms with the money obtained in a spirit of sacrifice (i.e. money saved from walking instead of paying for a ride), and work in apostolic undertakings (i.e. mentoring mothers in a cooperative, volunteering to teach catechism, working at different undertakings of Opus Dei, providing venues for camps, etc.).

[Edward H]

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

Hmmmm....So it does have a somewhat strict, could be interpreted as cultish, aspect. I would be interested to know if these types of things extend to people who join as adults. I think this person said that he encountered Opus Dei while at college, so he was young but not a child.

No. Opus Dei is a huge promoter of freedom, the freedom seen In Mary's total abandonment to God's will. It's through total freedom that we can only truly love God and others.

It's quite the opposite of a cult. It's very hard to become a member. It's basically set up to in a gentle way discourage membership, giving non members all the formation they want with any sort of membership hassle/hurdle.

[AmazingLove]

Originally Posted by jaaraf

This blogger just wrote a book. He is a Catholic convert who is NOT an Opus Dei member, a diocesan director for evangelization and he talk about how any Catholic can benefit from the spirituality of Opus Dei.
http://ericsammons.com/blog/2011/07/...-for-everyone/

Hi thanks for another reading to devour! It seems that God is leading me to Opus Dei but I still need to discern more.