What was the worst time period in the Church?

[Rolltide]

Originally Posted by StrawberryJam

Right now today is the worst time for the Catholic Church from what I can see. Knowledge is not her friend.

The Catholic Church is not afraid of knowledge. Knowledge is from God. It is simply the misuse or misunderstanding of knowledge that is the problem. Knowledge is NOT wisdom.

[CSJ]

The darkest time for the Church is when we, even on an individual level, sin mortally. When we sin, we are separated and we die - it is a travesty that any soul should perish with the cross in sight. Think of the parable of the lost sheep and realize that Christ values you (on an individual level) this much.

I know that my answer does not follow the intended response of the poster, but I felt we could be reminded that we are bought with a King's ransom.

God Bless
CSJ

[JaKael02]

Originally Posted by Rolltide

I would argue that the Catholic Church is better off now than at any point in human history. Let's compare:

1st through 4th centuries: Catholicism wasn't even legal. Major persecutions and martyrdoms occurring. The church was forced to hide underground. Even by the time of Constantine, less than 10% of the Roman empire was Christian. Gnostic and Arian controversies *rocked* the Christian Church.

5th through 11th centuries: Western Europe is in collapse. Literacy hovers near 1%. It was difficult, if not impossible, for laypeople to undertake serious religious study. Churches were under attack from Germanic tribes and Vikings. The beginnings of Islam in 622 AD seriously threaten western Europe. Spain and Portugal fall. France barely holds on at the Battle of Tours in 732. Even the Byzantine Empire suffers through serious losses. Again, controversy over several heresies, including Monophysitism.

12th century: The Crusades begin. General warfare between Catholics and Islam. The Catholic Church and Orthodox Church split, causing the first Great Schism in Christianity (yes, I know about the Oriental Orthodox...)

13th to 15th centuries: The Black Death kills between 25% and 40% of Europeans in just a four year period. The Avignon Papacy causes great corruption within the church. The Great (papal) Schism almost fractures Christianity when one, and eventually two other claimants to the papacy arise. John Wycliffe and Jan Hus stir up trouble.

16th and 17th centuries: The Protestant Reformation causes the greatest turmoil the Christian Church has ever known. The end result is the fracturing of Christianity into many dozens of denominations, and the Thirty Years' War, which devastates Europe.

18th century: The Enlightenment and French Revolution create a massive attack on Catholicism and religion in general both in France and other parts of Europe.

As you can see, compared to other eras in the history of Catholicism, we're actually in a golden age of sorts. It's only forty years since a major council (Vatican II), and so many of the kinks resulting from it are now beginning to be resolved. Young people are returning to a more obedient and lively faith. Although there are some problems, there are ALWAYS problems, and compared to the problems of the past, the ones that are around today are arguably not NEARLY as serious, although they will pose their own challenges.

I see your views on all the different stages of Church history. Obviously the Church has always been under considerable attack. Plus under attack in plenty of different forms.

I argue the rapid moral decline of Western Society is the greatest because it deals with sin and allows atheism to take root in society. This is a greater threat then the heresies. (In my opinion)

God said to fear sin over persecution and trials/tribulations.

God Bless,

James

[Poof]

Originally Posted by StrawberryJam

Right now today is the worst time for the Catholic Church from what I can see. Knowledge is not her friend.

It isn't knowledge, it's a combination of ignorance and apathy.

Ignorance because many non-Catholics, be it atheists or Protestant Christians are ignorant of both our faith and church history. In spite of todays numerous technological advancements which allow us easy and convenient ways of learning about the world and it's past, people still cling to the same old lies about Catholicism. Fortunately for us, these lies have been being confronted as of late (no wonder this period in history is being called the information age and thank God for it).

Apathy because there are many Catholics who are indifferent about their faith. Their efforts and attitudes towards learning about the Catholicism are lackadaisical and sometimes, no effort is even put in! These uncatechised folks are easily proselytized into other religious sects (or lack thereof) and those that do stay become liberal and ignorant (which only make the Church look bad). Apparently, the prevalent attitude among these lukewarm Catholics (my dad included) is that as long as you believe in God, don't steal, kill, murder, rape, cheat, or lie and live "a good life" you will go to heaven. The fact that one-fifth of U.S. Catholics are not linked to any parish is an appalling eye-opening truth that proves the apathetic attitude among many Catholic believers. As far as knowledge is concerned, it is and has always been on our side (see the exodus among Protestant Christians into the Catholic Church as an example). Generally, it is lukewarm Catholics that have been leaving the church (due to ignorance) while devout Protestants have been coming in (due to their love for Jesus, their pursuit of the truth and their realization that he resides completely in the Catholic Church, the fullness of the truth).

[Poof]

Personally, I believe the worst period in Church history to be the time of the Arian heresy. The situation was so bleak that more than half of the church's bishops were even favoring it at one point! Looking back at the situation you would think that the Church was done! Then again, the Catholic Church isn't a man-made institution and like all the other challenges it faced, it was able to come out victorious.

[Poof]

Originally Posted by Poof

Apparently, the prevalent attitude among these lukewarm Catholics (my dad included) is that as long as you believe in God, don't steal, kill, murder, rape, cheat, or lie and live "a good life" you will go to heaven.

I meant to say...

Apparently, the prevalent attitude among these lukewarm Catholics (my dad included) is that as long as you believe in God, don't steal, murder, rape and live "a good life" you will go to heaven.

[Rolltide]

Originally Posted by Poof

Personally, I believe the worst period in Church history to be the time of the Arian heresy. The situation was so bleak that more than half of the church's bishops were even favoring it at one point! Looking back at the situation you would think that the Church was done! Then again, the Catholic Church isn't a man-made institution and like all the other challenges it faced, it was able to come out victorious.

It got so bad at one point, that St. Nicholas punched out Arius at the Council of Nicaea!

[NorthTexan88]

Originally Posted by Rolltide

It got so bad at one point, that St. Nicholas punched out Arius at the Council of Nicaea!

Have you seen the video by the Orthodox guy on YouTube called Santa Lays the Smackdown? It talks about this lol

[Maryann C]

Originally Posted by Rolltide

I would argue that the Catholic Church is better off now than at any point in human history. .........

As you can see, compared to other eras in the history of Catholicism, we're actually in a golden age of sorts.

I think that depends on how one looks at challenge really and what 'worst' means for the Church. To the OP I would say now BECAUSE we have it so easy many we are just as poorly catechized as those unlearned priests in the Dark Ages. We also have to remember that at all times did the Holy Spirit was with the Church otherwise one calls Jesus a liar.

To me one has to define 'worst' I think it would mean 'closest to being over run by satan and his minions and turned away from what Jesus intended'. As C.S.Lewis ponders in his Screwtape letters , satan has many ways to achieve this, ignorant slumber of the believer is one of the most powerful in my book , far worse than threat of bodily harm because the blood of the martyrs is the seed for the Church to grow but a Catholic in ignorant slumber has no clue he needs to fight the good fight because he thinks he has already done or is doing that!. Smoke is far more dangerous than the dagger.

[Trebor135]

Originally Posted by Poof

I meant to say...

Apparently, the prevalent attitude among these lukewarm Catholics (my dad included) is that as long as you believe in God, don't steal, murder, rape and live "a good life" you will go to heaven.

Amen.

Now might be the worst time for the Catholic Church: the extent of lukewarmness is so vast that it breaks my heart. Few of the Catholics I know are practicing (with shining counterexamples even outside the Catholic group on campus), whereas most of the Protestants I know are devout (with perhaps a handful of exceptions).

[Holly3278]

I personally think that times are worse now than they ever were before. That is also one reason why I believe the Second Coming of Christ is very close.

[The GreyPilgrim]

The time of feudalism was probably the worst period for the Church because of how much of a corruptive influence it was. When you had Bishops beholden more to their secular Lords than to the Pope and these same Lords in constant conflict with Rome because of their perceived rights, such as a Lord's right to install a bishop of his choosing.

Bishops became too worldly. You had "Mass priests" who knew nothing of theology or doctrine but were simply there to say Mass.

In the Early Church it was the Diocletian/Galerian persecutions(Galerius was really the man who wanted the persecution but because they were under Diocletian they are named as his). After that would be the Arian heresy along with the Emperor's interference into the Church to force unity.

Modernism is almost as bad as feudalism but for a different reason. Modernism is more subversive. It is not a corruption of people directly but a corruption of people through ideas. It muddies the waters of truth, mixes truth with falsehood so that one has to strain and search for it. Many give up and conclude that there must not be any truth, or that it is so hard to find how do we know we have it once we find it?

That's why subjectivism and relativism are the greatest poisons to society, they obscure truth. If I am truth, or if truth comes from me, why do I need God?

[JaKael02]

It's amazing how all these different and difficult stages the bride of Christ has endured.

Still kicking....2000 years later...

but wait... airn't we just superstitious and all based on some big myth?


God Bless!

-James

[constantconvert]

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

As far as the most shameful sustained period in the Church, I think it would be the aptly-named Saeculum obscurum (Latin: "The Dark Age"), also called the "Reign of Harlots" or the "Pornocracy," which lasted sixty years and spanned the successive reigns of 12 Popes in the Tenth Century.

Do you know of any good books on this period of time?

[livingwordunity]

Looking at the faith from a global perspective, one can argue that the 20th century was the hardest on Christians since there were more people martyred for the faith in that century than in all the ones previous to it combined. And things don't seem to be getting better.