Pope reaffirms ban on women priests - Page 56

**PRmerger** · #**826** May 20, '12, 5:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyLight

The common factor in a lot of the SSPX's positions is that they are in opposition to modern changes in the liturgy and the Church. Since naming women as female doctors of the church is a recent phenomenom I would assume this would be seen as one of those changes. They seem to believe that these modern changes are errors made by the Church. I do believe that they genuinely don't believe women should be given the honor. I would assume that this was because this is how many of the older members where catechized. As where all Catholics before 1970.

Fair enough. I suppose 'tis possible that this is their rationale.

mtngal25 · #**827** May 21, '12, 6:21 am

I don't know why we have to keep discussing this issue but it seems that people are really ignorant of Catholic doctrine. The church is not an umbrella system where anything goes. It is hierarchical and if people don't like that, they can choose a more democratic system in another denomination. God gave man free will, so mature people will use that to choose where they belong in a religion. There are different denominations to accomodate everybody so there is no reason in the world why anyone should waste time trying to change the church they are in. Just move over to another one. Liberal dissidents are troublemakers and very selfish people because they want to mess it up for the faithful who love the church the old way. They like to displace people when it is not necessary to do that. All these dissidents do is create more splits and groups. They ruin the unity of the church and only cause upset.
I would never accept women priests no matter what people say. It is not a social or rightist issue. It is a theological issue and people trying to persuade me to accept something I don't want is going to get nowhere. There is no arguement that will make me change my mind so it is an act of futility to keep yapping about it.

**PRmerger** · #**828** May 21, '12, 6:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtngal25

I don't know why we have to keep discussing this issue

This is about the 3rd time you've made this comment on this thread, and I am puzzled why you keep coming back, if you feel the discussion is over.

Discussions on a forum may go on as long as people have something to say (given the parameters of the CAFs).

It's like being on a math forum and everyone knows that the differential equation is solvable, but some need to work it out in their heads first.

That's what some are doing here.

mtngal25 · #**829** May 21, '12, 10:57 pm

There are a lot of guys who apply for the priesthood but don't get in. If he is missing hands or has certain deformities and can't perform the Mass, he has to find something else to do to serve the church. A person who is not specifically a man in the true sense of the word, can't become a priest. The entersexual person has mixed DNA of both sexes and mixed sex organs. He has to decide what sex he is to be when he passes puberty. Most become women because their male organs don't function sexually and it is easier to make them women than men. It is a hard situation to handle and they have to have lots of counciling and help. Unfortunately, men for the priesthood have to be able to function as true men and be an example of a real man. It is sad but that is the way it is. There are rules for being accepted into the priesthood. I remember the Menendez guy who had no arms and he played the guitar with his feet. He wanted to be a priest but could not because he had no hands. Yet, instead of rebelling and causing trouble about it, he chose another path where he is a real blessing. He understood why he could not be a priest but he certainly chose a wonderful way to minister to the public. He even received a papal kiss from Pope John Paul II in Iowa when the pope visited there some time ago. People have to learn that there are many things that we cannot always get. Life is not always fair and we have to have second choices when the first can't be met.
Once again, if some people find the Catholic churches' rules and doctrines too hard to accept, there are always other alternatives.

mtngal25 · #**830** May 21, '12, 11:04 pm

I keep coming back because I keep getting notices about another post in my email. I always want to know what someone else says so I read the posts. Seems like there are ideas that come up that has not been mentioned before so I respond. Once people are over talking about this issue then I guess it is really over. It is over for me and my beliefs but evidently other people keep on talking about it so it goes on. I think people get social rights issues mixed up with doctrinal issues and that is where the problem is.

**PRmerger** · #**831** May 22, '12, 4:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtngal25

I keep coming back because I keep getting notices about another post in my email. I always want to know what someone else says so I read the posts. Seems like there are ideas that come up that has not been mentioned before so I respond. Once people are over talking about this issue then I guess it is really over. It is over for me and my beliefs but evidently other people keep on talking about it so it goes on. I think people get social rights issues mixed up with doctrinal issues and that is where the problem is.

There's an icon at the top that says Thread Tools. If you click on it you can find a thing that says "unsubscribe from this thread", and then you won't get any more notices.

Of course, you are always welcome to post here and dialogue.

My point was that it's futile to tell folks, "The question has been answered! Move on!" because sometimes people have other points they'd like to make. They are still wrestling with the idea and it's helpful for them to pose the question another way.

mtngal25 · #**832** May 23, '12, 6:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

This thing of disobedient priests makes me yearn for the days before Vatican II, where all priests were obedient either to the head of their religious order or their Bishop. In those days, if a priest dared to publicly state anything against the teaching of Holy Mother the Church, he was gone in an eyeblink. There were many priests who were relieved of pastoral duties and sent to various monestaries to atone....And there were many who simply were defrocked.
I really think we would be better off as a smaller but more unified Church of pious, obedient believers and let the dissidents go the way of all heretics.

What a great post! People who stay in the church in order to defy the church's authority are defying the Holy Spirit Himself. As I said before, God gave the true church the power to carry on the teachings and traditions of the church and if anyone can't accept that, then they have become protestants at that moment and should go to another church out of honesty. Dissidents are like a disease in the body which upsets the operation of the body and must be ousted for the health of the church. Vatican II has been used by dissidents to destroy the church from within. It is obvious to me and has been for years. As far as someone having to work things our in their minds, this has to be done by reading and prayer, not by fighting to maintain one's error. Trying to push one's error is evil as a Catholic. It means that one has not converted to the true faith and that they are trying to make people believe their way instead of submitting to the will of the church. I stayed outside the church for years before becoming Catholic so that I had all these problems resolved before coming into the church. It seems as if people want to resist the truth even though people are explaining over and over why we can't have women priests. Once I became a Catholic, I did not try to hang on to protestant thinking. Notice that the Orthodox do not have women priests either. The Catholic church hopes to bring the east and the west together and that will not happen if we ordained women priests. Women priests is a pagan idea and goddess worship and witchcraft had women priestesses. We come out of Judaism which was the true faith before Christ revealed Himself so we follow that tradition. That is Christ's tradition, not paganism and goddess worship.
Mtnga

AngryAtheist8 · #**833** May 23, '12, 2:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Stegmeir
This thing of disobedient priests makes me yearn for the days before Vatican II, where all priests were obedient either to the head of their religious order or their Bishop. In those days, if a priest dared to publicly state anything against the teaching of Holy Mother the Church, he was gone in an eyeblink. There were many priests who were relieved of pastoral duties and sent to various monestaries to atone....And there were many who simply were defrocked.
I really think we would be better off as a smaller but more unified Church of pious, obedient believers and let the dissidents go the way of all heretics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtngal25

What a great post! People who stay in the church in order to defy the church's authority are defying the Holy Spirit Himself. As I said before, God gave the true church the power to carry on the teachings and traditions of the church and if anyone can't accept that, then they have become protestants at that moment and should go to another church out of honesty. Dissidents are like a disease in the body which upsets the operation of the body and must be ousted for the health of the church. Vatican II has been used by dissidents to destroy the church from within. It is obvious to me and has been for years. As far as someone having to work things our in their minds, this has to be done by reading and prayer, not by fighting to maintain one's error. Trying to push one's error is evil as a Catholic. It means that one has not converted to the true faith and that they are trying to make people believe their way instead of submitting to the will of the church. I stayed outside the church for years before becoming Catholic so that I had all these problems resolved before coming into the church. It seems as if people want to resist the truth even though people are explaining over and over why we can't have women priests. Once I became a Catholic, I did not try to hang on to protestant thinking. Notice that the Orthodox do not have women priests either. The Catholic church hopes to bring the east and the west together and that will not happen if we ordained women priests. Women priests is a pagan idea and goddess worship and witchcraft had women priestesses. We come out of Judaism which was the true faith before Christ revealed Himself so we follow that tradition. That is Christ's tradition, not paganism and goddess worship.
Mtnga

As I have said before:
These would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that has more respect for the capabilities of women

scipio337 · #**834** May 23, '12, 2:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

As I have said before:
These would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that has more respect for the capabilities of women

Only if one buys into your bare assertion fallacy that the Catholic Church doesn't respect those capabilities.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...itatem_en.html

mtngal25 · #**835** May 24, '12, 9:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bscastro

A couple days ago, there was a protest after Palm Sunday Mass in my city regarding this. It seems to have been part of a bigger movement.

I always have trouble answering this question (why can't women be priests), so I'll have to study it...I know it's been asked here probably many times.

God bless,
Bryan

Here is the way I made my decision about which church to actually join. I got out a paper, wrote down the beliefs and issues that I had studied and had answers to, then I compared it to what other churches taught. The Catholic church stood out as the one that I agreed with. It took years to come to a conclusion. I liked the fact that there was a pope who made the decisions and not the laity. I did not question the church because I had gone through that before my decision. Women priests was an issue I studied and I knew that it was not scriptural and I was much happier with the Catholic setup. I believe that people should get all these issues taken care of in their hearts before making a decision. I do not believe in infighting on these issues. If one finds that his or her decision was wrong, then find another church that fits your belief system. It is like marriage. Make sure you have the right person and that you love that person more than anything. Otherwise, don't get married to that person. The church is like that. Either love it or recognize that you made a mistake and look elsewhere but don't fight the system. It ruins the unity of the church and always realize that the Catholic church is not a democracy. If one wants that, then look into the congregational church or one that just has elders to vote on things. Ordaining priests is a theological thing, not a social or rightist thing. Also, most of the changes after Vatican II did not come from the documents or the council itself but from liberal infiltrators who got the changes through disobedience and weak bishops. I have no obedience to these changes and therefore bypass them in the fssp parish which I attend regularly.

mtngal25 · #**836** May 24, '12, 9:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by scipio337

Only if one buys into your bare assertion fallacy that the Catholic Church doesn't respect those capabilities.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...itatem_en.html

There is no other church on earth other than the Orthodox that honors a woman more than the Catholic church. The Blessed Mother is honored greatly and revered in our church. She is loved everywhere in our parishes. Women have a special place in our church but cannot be priests because of the theological teachings of the right matter for a valid sacrament. The church has it all written out and it cannot be changed, period. Just as we use only water for baptism, one man and one woman for marriage, properly consecrated oils for confirmation and ordination, etc we use only men for priests. Any other usage would invalidate the sacrament according to Catholic teachings. If anyone changed this, then it would no longer be the Bride of Christ. Pope John Paul stated this in the Catholic Register in Denver when he came for World Youth Day in 1993.He said that if the church renigned on Her divine teachings then She would no longer be the Bride of Christ. That is when some dissidents were harrassing the pope for the church to change its teachings on gay activity, women priests, moral issues, you name it, they said it. The pope stood firm. That is one of the things that keeps me Catholic--the pope makes the decisions and not the dissidents.

vsedriver · #**837** May 24, '12, 10:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

Quote:

As I have said before:
These would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that has more respect for the capabilities of women

What you should have said is that would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that allows priestesses.

It is a lie that the Catholic Church doesn't respect the capabilities of women. Please don't malign the Church because of your opinion.

Lochias · #**838** May 24, '12, 10:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsedriver

What you should have said is that would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that allows priestesses.

It is a lie that the Catholic Church doesn't respect the capabilities of women. Please don't malign the Church because of your opinion.

This. Dishonesty is never becoming.

AngryAtheist8 · #**839** May 24, '12, 11:04 am

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

As I have said before:
These would-be priestesses would be better off joining a religion that has more respect for the capabilities of women

Quote:

Originally Posted by scipio337

Only if one buys into your bare assertion fallacy that the Catholic Church doesn't respect those capabilities.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...itatem_en.html

It doesn't think much of women's abilities as spiritual leaders.

AngryAtheist8 · #**840** May 24, '12, 11:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtngal25

There is no other church on earth other than the Orthodox that honors a woman more than the Catholic church. The Blessed Mother is honored greatly and revered in our church. She is loved everywhere in our parishes. Women have a special place in our church but cannot be priests because of the theological teachings of the right matter for a valid sacrament. The church has it all written out and it cannot be changed, period. Just as we use only water for baptism, one man and one woman for marriage, properly consecrated oils for confirmation and ordination, etc we use only men for priests. Any other usage would invalidate the sacrament according to Catholic teachings. If anyone changed this, then it would no longer be the Bride of Christ. Pope John Paul stated this in the Catholic Register in Denver when he came for World Youth Day in 1993.He said that if the church renigned on Her divine teachings then She would no longer be the Bride of Christ. That is when some dissidents were harrassing the pope for the church to change its teachings on gay activity, women priests, moral issues, you name it, they said it. The pope stood firm. That is one of the things that keeps me Catholic--the pope makes the decisions and not the dissidents.

So what?
As Catholicism makes clear, the Virgin Mother was a very special case.

In what tangible and/or meaningful way does Marian adoration increase the status of women?