Our Lady of Good Success & question for traditionalists

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Dan Daly

Quite right. It's a completely different fraud.

Pax

What in the world does that mean?

[Dan Daly]

Our Lady of Good Success Academy is co-located with an SSPX chapel.....however, it's not an official SSPX school either:

http://www.sspx.org/schools.html

Isn't that interesting.

[Dan Daly]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

What in the world does that mean?

I mean exactly what I said.

So far we've established:

-That you have failed to present any documentation of approval for the apparition from the Church.
-That your claim that "Our Lady of Good Success Academy" was a Catholic school in good standing in New York was false.
-That your revised claim that "Our Lady of Good Success Academy" was an SSPX school in New York was false.
-That all of your non-authoritative sources claiming the "apparition" is approved either come directly from a woman who claims the Ordinary Form of the Mass is evil, or are cut and pasted from her website onto other websites.

Pax Christi

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Dan Daly

Our Lady of Good Success Academy is co-located with an SSPX chapel.....however, it's not an official SSPX school either:

http://www.sspx.org/schools.html

Isn't that interesting.

What does that have to do with the name and the validity of the apparition?
The school is a traditional Catholic school and such a school would certainly not choose an unapproved apparition for name.

I am tired of aruging with you. You just throw statements out with nothing to back them up and ignore everything I show you. I'll leave it to others who read this thread as to what is right and wrong. Our Lady of Good Success is celebrated around the world, and I don't see anyone anywhere condemning those who do celebrate it.

Good night.

[Dan Daly]

I'm learning as I go, but to the best of my knowledge part of being "a traditional Catholic" is operating within the CHURCH.

As you said, we can leave to reasonable people to evaluate the evidence for themselves.

It was a pleasure discussing this with you Brooklyn. Have a goodnight as well.

Pax Christi

P.S. It is interesting that over the course of the thread you've revised your position from "Our Lady of Good Success is approved by the Church" to "Our Lady of Good Success is celebrated around the world."

All sorts of holidays and events are celebrated by many people all around the world. For example Yom Kippur, Ramadan, Kwanza, Diwali, Veterans' Day, and the Macy's Day parade are all celebrated around the world.

Good night again.

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

You obviously don't want to accept this apparition. That is your right. But you have no right to tell others that it is not true when there is no church teaching against it.

You say that the forum rules here say that we are allowed to discuss apparitions that have not been officially approved. This is from the rules:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=434589

I want to remind our participants of Content Rule 6:

Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

Material from unapproved private revelations includes:
Personally experienced 'visions'
Messages God asked you to transmit
Messages from Bayside
Messages from Medjugorje, etc.

If you post material from unapproved private revelations, your account will be subject to the Enforcement Rules, which could include immediate suspension or banning of your account.

You contend that the material I have posted is not true and is of an apparition which is not approved. You also say that an apparition that is not approved is not the same as an unapproved apparition.

Therefore, you should report it to the moderator because if what you say is true, I have broken the forum rules. Our Lady of Good Success is not Bayside and it is not Medjugorje. You will find that out if you contact the moderator.

You obviously have not been paying attention to what I said. I said that it is not websites that approve apparitions. It is the Church.
How does the Church approve an apparition? By an intensive investigation and a declaration by the local Bishop deeming the apparition worthy of belief.

What does not approved mean?

It can mean an investigation has not been done at all and so an approval cannot be given.
It can mean the alleged apparitions are still under investigation and a decision has not been made yet.
It can mean an investigation has been done and the decision is that there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings.
It can mean an investigation has been done and the decision is that no supernatural happenings have taken place.

What does approved mean?

It means an investigation has been done and the local Bishop deems the apparition worthy of belief and a public documented declaration has been made.

As you keep claiming that an approval has been given will you please direct us to the official document issued by the Church on this. As I have said several times in this thread I am happy to accept this has been approved by the Church if you can provide such approval to me.

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by thistle

You obviously have not been paying attention to what I said. I said that it is not websites that approve apparitions. It is the Church.
How does the Church approve an apparition? By an intensive investigation and a declaration by the local Bishop deeming the apparition worthy of belief.

As you keep claiming that an approval has been given will you please direct us to the official document issued by the Church on this. As I have said several times in this thread I am happy to accept this has been approved by the Church if you can provide such approval to me.

You're right, websites do not give authority. But websites do give information. Here is a link to a website which gives information about the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador which is the official and approved site for our Lady of Good Success. Obviously this site could not exist without the approval of the local bishop. There is a yearly procession there on the feast day, Feb. 2:

Our Lady of Good Success appeared here in the Conceptionist Church Convent to Mariana de Jesus Torres around the same time as the time of the Lily of Quito, and her statue predominates as the treasure of the convent.

The public shares in honoring and venerating her - displayed in all her glory above the main altar - only on months and days designated for her when her miraculous statue is brought out. The whole month of May, she beckons as Queen and mother for her devotees to come to her.

Most other times, she reigns in her place in the convent. After the grand procession held for her in honor of her 400th anniversary in 2011... and after each time she is so honored... she receives intense devotion from the nuns who so lovingly wait on her.

On the feast of her purification, February 2, at 5:00AM, the procession in her honor begins from here. Petitions with the names on them are collected up until that day of her anniversary each year, placed at her feet, there to remain until February 2 of the following year.

Don't you think that if this apparition was not approved, the local Bishop would not allow these ceremonies and processions? This apparition happened hundreds of years ago, and the body of Mariana de Jesus Torres is still incorrupt. That alone doesn't mean that the apparition is approved, but in all this time, don't you think the Church would be warning us about it? Instead, everything says it is approved. Again, this is not Medjugorje or Bayside, both of which have been specifically and publicly condemned by the local Bishops. (The local bishop does not allow official pilgrimages to Medjugorje). This one receives full approval of the local bishop. And it is the bishop who gives approval to apparitions, not Rome. Rome can give assent, but the approval is left to the bishop.

Can you give me a link for an official document pointing to the approval of Lourdes? I can't find one, but I sure do believe it.

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

You're right, websites do not give authority. But websites do give information. Here is a link to a website which gives information about the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador which is the official and approved site for our Lady of Good Success. Obviously this site could not exist without the approval of the local bishop. There is a yearly procession there on the feast day, Feb. 2:

Our Lady of Good Success appeared here in the Conceptionist Church Convent to Mariana de Jesus Torres around the same time as the time of the Lily of Quito, and her statue predominates as the treasure of the convent.

The public shares in honoring and venerating her - displayed in all her glory above the main altar - only on months and days designated for her when her miraculous statue is brought out. The whole month of May, she beckons as Queen and mother for her devotees to come to her.

Most other times, she reigns in her place in the convent. After the grand procession held for her in honor of her 400th anniversary in 2011... and after each time she is so honored... she receives intense devotion from the nuns who so lovingly wait on her.

On the feast of her purification, February 2, at 5:00AM, the procession in her honor begins from here. Petitions with the names on them are collected up until that day of her anniversary each year, placed at her feet, there to remain until February 2 of the following year.

Don't you think that if this apparition was not approved, the local Bishop would not allow these ceremonies and processions? This apparition happened hundreds of years ago, and the body of Mariana de Jesus Torres is still incorrupt. That alone doesn't mean that the apparition is approved, but in all this time, don't you think the Church would be warning us about it? Instead, everything says it is approved. Again, this is not Medjugorje or Bayside, both of which have been specifically and publicly condemned by the local Bishops. (The local bishop does not allow official pilgrimages to Medjugorje). This one receives full approval of the local bishop. And it is the bishop who gives approval to apparitions, not Rome. Rome can give assent, but the approval is left to the bishop.

Can you give me a link for an official document pointing to the approval of Lourdes? I can't find one, but I sure do believe it.

On 18 January 1862, Bishop Laurence, the Bishop of Tarbes, gave the solemn declaration:

"We are inspired by the Commission comprising wise, holy, learned and experienced priests who questioned the child, studied the facts, examined everything and weighed all the evidence. We have also called on science, and we remain convinced that the Apparitions are supernatural and divine, and that by consequence, what Bernadette saw was the Most Blessed Virgin. Our convictions are based on the testimony of Bernadette, but above all on the things that have happened, things which can be nothing other than divine intervention".

After the local Bishop approved the apparitions Pope Pius IX authorized the local bishop to permit the veneration of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes in 1862.

[PJM]

=TrueLight;9320195]Is that so?

I registered for that course for next semester. I might have to cancel the class.

Seems like a prudent decision my friend,
Pat

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by thistle

On 18 January 1862, Bishop Laurence, the Bishop of Tarbes, gave the solemn declaration:

"We are inspired by the Commission comprising wise, holy, learned and experienced priests who questioned the child, studied the facts, examined everything and weighed all the evidence. We have also called on science, and we remain convinced that the Apparitions are supernatural and divine, and that by consequence, what Bernadette saw was the Most Blessed Virgin. Our convictions are based on the testimony of Bernadette, but above all on the things that have happened, things which can be nothing other than divine intervention".

After the local Bishop approved the apparitions Pope Pius IX authorized the local bishop to permit the veneration of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes in 1862.

Yoy dion't give a link, but I'm assuming this is correct, and I thank you.

I also found this in regard to our Lady of Good Success:

Our Lady of Good Success

The apparitions of Our Lady of Good Success began on the 2nd of February 1594 at the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador. The Virgin Mary repeatedly appeared to Venerable Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres, identifying herself as 'Our Lady of Good Success'. The apparition requested that a statue be made in her likeness and made several predictions concering a crisis in the church specifically a fall in vocations, a lack of availability of the sacraments and a fall in moral standards in the 20th century. The apparitions were approved by the local Bishop, Salvador de Ribera on the 2nd of February 1611. In 1991 The Vatican granted the canonical coronation of our Lady of Good Success as 'Queen of Quito' after being petitioned by the Archbishop of Quito

Here is the link. You will notice that this is included with other approved aparitions such as our Lady of Lourdes, Fatima and the latest approved apparition, Kibeho.

This same information can also be found here:

Ecclesial Approval 
of the Apparitions

Archbishop Salvador de Ribera—the eighth bishop of Quito—was the one who approved the apparitions that had been granted to Mariana. He wanted to know everything about the graces that had been bestowed upon her, and he was impressed and edified. He approved the apparitions and arranged that all the special graces and heavenly apparitions that Mariana received should be written down. All his successors in the episcopal see of Quito followed him in granting this approval. His immediate successor asked Mother Mariana to write an autobiography, and he ordered her spiritual director to compose an account of Mariana’s life. All these reports are in the archive of the convent.

Moreover it was determined in 1906—when Mariana’s coffin was opened—that her body and the bodies of six other nuns who were foundresses of the convent, are incorrupt. Thus, although Mother Mariana, in keeping with the prophecy, remained unknown until the end of the 20th century, the preservation of her incorrupt remains is still a proof of her sanctity in our time.

In 1968 the Archbishop of Quito, the Most Reverend Antonio Gonzales, introduced the cause of Sister Mariana’s beatification. In an episcopal decree he certified the holiness of her life, her heroic practice of the virtues, and also the authenticity of her charismatic and supernatural gifts!

Another sign in favor of the authenticity of the apparitions was the canonical crowning of Our Lady of Good Success as Queen of Quito in 1991. This coronation of Our Lady was carried out by the local Ordinary on the basis of a papal decree by John Paul II.

Msgr. Luis E. Cadena y Almeida is the postulator of Mother Mariana’s cause of beatification. He has written many books about her and also about the revelations. All of these books have received the Church’s imprimatur. He devoted one book to the prophetic messages that have already been fulfilled. Only one has not yet come true: Mary’s triumph. But the exact fulfillment of what had been foretold in the past gives us hope for the future!

And just for Dan Daley, this is what the website says about itself:

Angelus Press aims to promote the immemorial Traditions of the Catholic Faith and the Tridentine Rite of the Mass with an unswerving commitment to orthodoxy and the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. As an apostolate of the Catholic press, we have the mission of spreading the Faith through the printed word by our books and magazine publications.

[PJM]

[quote]=Brooklyn;9327116]

Did you read my post? February 2 is the Feast Day of our Lady of Good Success, all bishops of Quito, Ecuador have approved it, it is celebrated in Ecuador, the Philippines and Spain,Our Lady of Good Success serves as the patroness of the Diocese of Parañaque, Philippines. There is a school named for Our Lady of Good Success here in New York. It is an approved shrine and there are pilgrimages to it. What more do you need? I gave you several links showing Pope Pius V approved of it back at the time of the apparitions. If you don't want to accept this apparition, that is your choice. It is a private revelation. But it is blatantly false to say it is not approved by the Church.



I have given you many different sites showing that this apparition is approved and celebrated around the world. All you have given me is negative comments with nothing to back them up. As I said, if you really feel you are correct, then you have some busy days ahead of you contacting all these different people and organizations that do honor Our Lady of Good Success to let them know that they are wrong. You better let the Bishop of Quito know he has no right to have a shrine to this centuries old apparition that "has not been approved."

BTW, Mother Maria de Jesus Torres is a cannonized saint and her feast day is May 26.

http://www.ourladyofgoodsuccess.com/...na-mariana.htm

ALL WELL AND VERY GOOD;

BUT

IT IS NOT [YET] AN APPROVED UNIVERSAL RCC APPEARANCE

God Bless and Mary under ALL of her worthy titles lead us to God!

pat/PJM.

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by PJM

ALL WELL AND VERY GOOD;

BUT

IT IS NOT [YET] AN APPROVED UNIVERSAL RCC APPEARANCE

God Bless and Mary under ALL of her worthy titles lead us to God!

pat/PJM.

And where do you get your information from?

BTW, it is very rude to use all caps. It is a form of yelling and I, for one, am inclined to ignore anyone who yells at me.

I've been on this thread for 3 days. I'm tired of it. I will go with the people around the world who do venerate our Lady of Good Success. If you all want to reject it, that is your right. I can't help but feel the main reason for rejecting this apparition, despite the fact that the local bishop of Quito has given his complete approval, is because you don't like the prophecies. Someday when we all hopefully meet Mother Mariana in heaven, she will be able to straighten it out for all of us.

In the meantime, if you feel like traveling, why not go down to Quito and view Mother Mariana's incorrupt body. It is incorrupt even though she has been died for over 400 years. But I guess that doesn't mean anything.

Peace.

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

Yoy dion't give a link, but I'm assuming this is correct, and I thank you.

I also found this in regard to our Lady of Good Success:

Our Lady of Good Success

The apparitions of Our Lady of Good Success began on the 2nd of February 1594 at the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador. The Virgin Mary repeatedly appeared to Venerable Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres, identifying herself as 'Our Lady of Good Success'. The apparition requested that a statue be made in her likeness and made several predictions concering a crisis in the church specifically a fall in vocations, a lack of availability of the sacraments and a fall in moral standards in the 20th century. The apparitions were approved by the local Bishop, Salvador de Ribera on the 2nd of February 1611. In 1991 The Vatican granted the canonical coronation of our Lady of Good Success as 'Queen of Quito' after being petitioned by the Archbishop of Quito

Here is the link. You will notice that this is included with other approved aparitions such as our Lady of Lourdes, Fatima and the latest approved apparition, Kibeho.

This same information can also be found here:

Ecclesial Approval 
of the Apparitions

Archbishop Salvador de Ribera—the eighth bishop of Quito—was the one who approved the apparitions that had been granted to Mariana. He wanted to know everything about the graces that had been bestowed upon her, and he was impressed and edified. He approved the apparitions and arranged that all the special graces and heavenly apparitions that Mariana received should be written down. All his successors in the episcopal see of Quito followed him in granting this approval. His immediate successor asked Mother Mariana to write an autobiography, and he ordered her spiritual director to compose an account of Mariana’s life. All these reports are in the archive of the convent.

Moreover it was determined in 1906—when Mariana’s coffin was opened—that her body and the bodies of six other nuns who were foundresses of the convent, are incorrupt. Thus, although Mother Mariana, in keeping with the prophecy, remained unknown until the end of the 20th century, the preservation of her incorrupt remains is still a proof of her sanctity in our time.

In 1968 the Archbishop of Quito, the Most Reverend Antonio Gonzales, introduced the cause of Sister Mariana’s beatification. In an episcopal decree he certified the holiness of her life, her heroic practice of the virtues, and also the authenticity of her charismatic and supernatural gifts!

Another sign in favor of the authenticity of the apparitions was the canonical crowning of Our Lady of Good Success as Queen of Quito in 1991. This coronation of Our Lady was carried out by the local Ordinary on the basis of a papal decree by John Paul II.

Msgr. Luis E. Cadena y Almeida is the postulator of Mother Mariana’s cause of beatification. He has written many books about her and also about the revelations. All of these books have received the Church’s imprimatur. He devoted one book to the prophetic messages that have already been fulfilled. Only one has not yet come true: Mary’s triumph. But the exact fulfillment of what had been foretold in the past gives us hope for the future!

And just for Dan Daley, this is what the website says about itself:

Angelus Press aims to promote the immemorial Traditions of the Catholic Faith and the Tridentine Rite of the Mass with an unswerving commitment to orthodoxy and the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. As an apostolate of the Catholic press, we have the mission of spreading the Faith through the printed word by our books and magazine publications.

Thank you too.

[IesumPerMariam]

I'm not an expert on this apparition, but we have a priest here in our diocese who regularly celebrates the Sunday morning EF Mass in the Cathedral Parish. A few years back he received permission to leave the Franciscan Institute of Religious Life he had been with (I believe the Franciscans of the Immaculate, but am not certain) to work on founding his own Franciscan IRL -- the Franciscan Friars of Our Lady of Good Success. He is in good standing with our Bishop, the Most Reverend Robert C. Morlino, who allows Father to say Mass, preach, and hear confessions within the diocese.

Here are some links from our diocesan newspaper which reference Fr. Isaac Mary Relyea of the Franciscan Friars of Our Lady of Good Success.
http://madisoncatholicherald.org/new...n-mission.html
http://madisoncatholicherald.org/new...rism-mass.html

[Mintaka]

First off, let's be clear. The miraculous statue part of the devotion is fully approved and old and easy to document.


Here's the Madrid Archdiocese's page for a parish dedicated to the Madrid miraculous statue of Nuestra Senora del Buen Suceso. Here's a Spanish Wikipedia page showing the old parish church.

Here's a video from the Conceptionist convent in Quito, Ecuador. Here's an article about the 500th anniversary of the Quito convent showing the statue in place. Nuestra Senora del Buen Suceso is listed under "Santuarios" on the Quito archdiocese's webpage.

Even the English-language Wikipedia page for Paranaque Cathedral in the Philippines mentions their statue of Our Lady of Good Success.

Looking for official apparitions data in other languages is usually more difficult, so give me some time to look that up.