Can a priest and woman be good friends? - Page 6

Midtown Mike · #76 May 30, '12, 1:39 pm

To the OP - what's truly in your heart? If there's no issue there, there's no issue.

To all the people who are concerned about gossips & what "it looks like" for a priest to be seen in the company of a woman (oh the horrors) - that's their problem (the gossips).

It is what's truly in the heart of the participants that matters. In my opinion, priests are just regular people who need the social interaction just as we all do. I have female friends that I can go to dinner with, or the movies. As long as my wife knows what's going on (respect), and I know what's truly in my heart, there should not be a problem. Who cares what those "other people" think might be going on. What matters is what's truly going on.

Mike

Bix · #77 May 30, '12, 3:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLight247

We cannot control others’ suspicion but we can always avoid inappropriate judgment on the part of our weaker brothers and sisters. Talking to a priest in his office is the normal way of business, eating out with a priest is not happening right and left. To be prudent and careful is not only to avoid others’ gossip, but also to avoid the impression of favoritism on the priest’s part. There is nothing wrong to be with a priest in the public, but why can not be with him in a group? If the purpose is to treat him with a good meal, why could not have some friends go out together?

Referring back to my earlier post, I don't trust many people. I find many people are looking to use others in one way or another. I don't associate with many people by choice and would not want to go out with a group...

Midtown Mike · #78 May 30, '12, 8:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bix

Referring back to my earlier post, I don't trust many people. I find many people are looking to use others in one way or another. I don't associate with many people by choice and would not want to go out with a group...

I find this post sad...

AdamPeter · #79 May 30, '12, 8:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midtown Mike

To the OP - what's truly in your heart? If there's no issue there, there's no issue.

To all the people who are concerned about gossips & what "it looks like" for a priest to be seen in the company of a woman (oh the horrors) - that's their problem (the gossips).

It is what's truly in the heart of the participants that matters. In my opinion, priests are just regular people who need the social interaction just as we all do. I have female friends that I can go to dinner with, or the movies. As long as my wife knows what's going on (respect), and I know what's truly in my heart, there should not be a problem. Who cares what those "other people" think might be going on. What matters is what's truly going on.

Mike

Unfortunately, Priests are not just "regular guys" as you say. They have been called by God to live, and be held accountable to a higher standard. It is inappropriate for a priest to be in a dating situation with a woman (from the moment one enters seminary this is not appropriate). It is also inappropriate for a married man or woman to do the same. The reason being we are - at the end of the day - human and dating leads to a certain emotional attachment which is particularly difficult for a priest to get into.

Mike, the attitude you have is unfortunate & all to common among certain priests & laity (particularly in Ireland) at the moment...

Baelor · #80 May 30, '12, 8:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

Unfortunately, Priests are not just "regular guys" as you say. They have been called by God to live, and be held accountable to a higher standard. It is inappropriate for a priest to be in a dating situation with a woman (from the moment one enters seminary this is not appropriate). It is also inappropriate for a married man or woman to do the same. The reason being we are - at the end of the day - human and dating leads to a certain emotional attachment which is particularly difficult for a priest to get into.

Mike, the attitude you have is unfortunate & all to common among certain priests & laity (particularly in Ireland) at the moment...

I do not understand your post. Nowhere did Mike mention dating.

AdamPeter · #81 May 30, '12, 8:59 pm

Going to the movies & out to dinner alone is generally considered to be "dating" - at least where I come from.

agapewolf · #82 May 30, '12, 9:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

Going to the movies & out to dinner alone is generally considered to be "dating" - at least where I come from.

I am female. I go to dinner and to movies alone with my best friend who is a girl. I'm not dating her.

Midtown Mike · #83 May 30, '12, 9:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

Unfortunately, Priests are not just "regular guys" as you say. They have been called by God to live, and be held accountable to a higher standard. It is inappropriate for a priest to be in a dating situation with a woman (from the moment one enters seminary this is not appropriate). It is also inappropriate for a married man or woman to do the same. The reason being we are - at the end of the day - human and dating leads to a certain emotional attachment which is particularly difficult for a priest to get into.

Mike, the attitude you have is unfortunate & all to common among certain priests & laity (particularly in Ireland) at the moment...

The original poster did not mention the word dating. You have added that into the discussion and you are assuming what was in the heart of the original poster. It is unfortunate that you have decided that some type of romance must be in the heart of the OP or the priest in this instance. I did not read any discussion of romance in the OP post. Did you? Or you are just assuming that anytime a woman and man are alone together, romance must be on the menu. You really believe this? You believe any man and woman cannot go to a movie together unless their ultimate intention is romance?

Mike

AdamPeter · #84 May 30, '12, 9:09 pm

No...I believe...through use of common sense that a priest should not put themselves in a position where they would possibly commit either the sin of scandal or provide an occasion for the sins of infidelity or impurity.

A priest needs to be faithful to their vow to celibacy just as a married man should be faithful to his wife.

Baelor · #85 May 30, '12, 9:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

Going to the movies & out to dinner alone is generally considered to be "dating" - at least where I come from.

Intent is what makes an activity dating. A priest and a woman going to the movies with intent to date are dating. A priest and a woman going to the movies with no intent to date are going to the movies.

No one is arguing against prudence. It seems clear, however, that prudence permits priests to have social lives. I would be far more considered about scandal, but even then, what the priest is doing is inherently (if not always circumstantially) permissible.

I would think, however, that the priest should be attentive to the cultural and societal expectations of his congregation and his area, which may lead him to avoid situations like being alone with a woman. I do not think that this is universally applicable.

AdamPeter · #86 May 30, '12, 9:28 pm

I don't think (nor did I imply) that a priest being alone with a woman was a bad thing.
And yes, priests should have social lives. 100% agree.
However, whether we like it or not - movies/dinner alone is dating territory and should probably be avoided for the sake of prudence.

Baelor · #87 May 30, '12, 9:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

However, whether we like it or not - movies/dinner alone is dating territory and should probably be avoided for the sake of prudence.

It is not "dating territory." Movies are enjoyed by friends and couples alike. Dinner too is enjoyed by those single and those involved. What makes a date a date is an intent (on the part of both involved) to engage in an activity as part of a larger discernment process. If that intent is not there, it is not a date. Thus, rock climbing can be a date or not; moviegoing can be a date or not; etc.

Bix · #88 May 30, '12, 10:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

I don't think (nor did I imply) that a priest being alone with a woman was a bad thing.
And yes, priests should have social lives. 100% agree.
However, whether we like it or not - movies/dinner alone is dating territory and should probably be avoided for the sake of prudence.

One of the 2-3 people I somewhat trust and consider a good friend - the two of us have been to more movies than I can count, charity events, dinner, etc. just the two of us. He is a man. He is a gay man; I am a straight woman. Trust me, movies and dinner do not equal dating.... Another friend is a straight man. We have been to dinner. We were hungry and went to eat in a restaurant. More than once. Just dinner. Sometimes people are simple hungry and don't want to eat at home.

I don't have a third eye, physical or mental impairments. I have been and am asked out on dates - as an adult, I know the difference and also know my intent and am able to understand and read the intent of others. Sometimes dinner and movies is simply- food and entertainment.

Frankly, I would not have maintained the friendships I have if it were not for the kindness and " friendship" or guidance I've received from my priest. He has shown me not every person is bad and keeping an ulterior motive. He has shown me kindness and compassion still exists which allowed me to not close out the few people I trusted. I am thankful for good, kind priests like him. They are the ones sacrificing and showing God's love through their actions. Without people like this, people like me would find it difficult to keep faith in others.

Furthermore, they are human. They put their pants on like everyone else and maybe people should show a little more respect and little less judgement so they don't have to be in fear of scandal over helping someone.

Stuff like this irritates me to no end. Example- I had to be in court for something( a financial matter and nothing bad on my part) I was and have been extremely stressed due to this issue ( one of many problems) anyway, I really wanted to ask him to meet me there or go with me. I needed and wanted someone of faith that I trusted with me. My parents were sick... If his schedule permitted, he probably would have gone if I had to guess. I never asked. Why, because I was worried if I brought a priest everyone would think it was for show.... Or, oh, no - what if another church member saw him and assumed something?! If I were Protestant, it wouldn't have been an issue because he would have simply been a guy in suit. I am aware and understand what many of you are saying, but it's extremely aggravating when you can't or won't call one of the few people you trust for fear of what others will think. However, now, ( according to this thread) it's improper to even speak outside the church in public? Sad.

AdamPeter · #89 May 31, '12, 3:27 am

I'm not saying it's improper for a priest to have a social life or have hobbies outside of his ministry - It's extremely important.

But I'm speaking about the potential for a type of relationship akin to romance to develop between a priest & parishioner or friend.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this in itself as it's perfectly human and natural, however as a man who has chosen to live a celibate life (as I currently am) - why put yourself in the position where your celibacy might be an issue or a struggle.

You talk about needing the "intent" to date - the fact is that only one needs to interpret the situation as a date in order for the situation to become complicated.

Stuff like this requires proper discernment. Intent to date or not - I would say if you are alone with a woman going for dinner & movie - that is courting behavior & not really what I would expect to see from a priest.

Captain America · #90 May 31, '12, 5:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamPeter

No...I believe...through use of common sense that a priest should not put themselves in a position where they would possibly commit either the sin of scandal or provide an occasion for the sins of infidelity or impurity.

A priest needs to be faithful to their vow to celibacy just as a married man should be faithful to his wife.

This really seems the better part of wisdom here. Sometimes forebearance is a virtue.