Australian church says women are “too choosy,” should wed earlier

[PaulinVA]

Originally Posted by BettyBoop416

The Church teaches that we get but one shot at marriage - no do-overs. And now the Church is saying not to be "too picky" when making this supposedly life-long choice?

This is just absurd.

I think this has to do with your philosophy of how God affects your everyday life.

If you believe that God has picked a spouse for you and it's your job to find him/her, you have to be extremely picky.

If you believe that you could actually live quite well with any number of people in your immediate area, then you will pick one of them and start your life.

[saraih]

Given the choice between 'oops, too late for kids' and 'divorced in a year never to have a meaningful marital relationship ever again' I'd rather wait and adopt/foster.

In my area far more women go to church than men, and more often. While it isn't a surefire method of judging who to date, an easter/christmas man wouldn't have been a good match for me at all. Cats are a better option than settling for someone you have serious doubts about.

[In Spiration]

I admire Fr. Kerin's courage in issuing such a predictably unpopular criticism, one which nonetheless needs to be made. I'm afraid that not nearly enough conservatives have realized the full extent of damages to society that could be traced to this very cultural phenomenon. A couple insightful takes on this problem from another smart Australian Catholic:

"The single girl stretched too far"

"What do feminists want for women?"

The second is in response to a telling article that appeared this past March in the Wall Street Journal, "Sexual Freedom and Women's Success," through which a popular feminist rejoices (emphasis mine):

Women these days understand that their sexual freedom—even if it causes them some amount of heartache—is necessary for their future success. As an in-depth 2004 study of the hookup culture by University of Michigan researcher Elizabeth Armstrong showed, women are not, as the stereotype goes, always pining for marriage while the men turn them away; quite the opposite. Women use their temporary college relationships as a "delay tactic," Ms. Armstrong writes, because their immediate priority is setting themselves up for a career. Thanks to the sexual revolution, they can have relationships—and maybe some drama—through their 20s and early 30s and not get tied down with a husband and babies. If the price is a little more heartache, so be it. These days women have a lot more important things on their horizon.

Further data indicate (w/emphasis again mine):

Men's greater inclination toward parenthood, however, seems to hold across every age group. While more than half the single men ages 21 to 35 wanted kids, only 46% of the women did. After that, the difference widens further, and not just out of biological reality. Only 16% of childless women in the still fertile years from 35 to 44 wanted kids; 27% of the men did. Plus, more women than men were prepared to say definitively that they were skipping parenthood.

"Women are much more interested in their independence than men are," says Fisher. They value certain parts of their single lives more than men do: according to the survey, women are likelier to want to have their own bank accounts, their own interests, their own personal space and solo vacations, even if they're in a committed relationship. They also care more about nights out with buddies.

Alice von Hildebrand was on EWTN Live the other night, and she stated without reservation that, in her opinion, Feminism is "the greatest victory that Satan has achieved since Original Sin" (around the 52:00 mark). Such a bold claim is actually pretty frightening when you consider the proven wisdom of who's saying it.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by In Spiration

I admire Fr. Kerin's courage in issuing such a predictably unpopular criticism, one which nonetheless needs to be made. I'm afraid that not nearly enough conservatives have realized the full extent of damages to society that could be traced to this very cultural phenomenon. A couple insightful takes on this problem from another smart Australian Catholic:

"The single girl stretched too far"

"What do feminists want for women?"

The second is in response to a telling article that appeared this past March in the Wall Street Journal, "Sexual Freedom and Women's Success," through which a popular feminist rejoices (emphasis mine):

Women these days understand that their sexual freedom—even if it causes them some amount of heartache—is necessary for their future success. As an in-depth 2004 study of the hookup culture by University of Michigan researcher Elizabeth Armstrong showed, women are not, as the stereotype goes, always pining for marriage while the men turn them away; quite the opposite. Women use their temporary college relationships as a "delay tactic," Ms. Armstrong writes, because their immediate priority is setting themselves up for a career. Thanks to the sexual revolution, they can have relationships—and maybe some drama—through their 20s and early 30s and not get tied down with a husband and babies. If the price is a little more heartache, so be it. These days women have a lot more important things on their horizon.

Further data indicate (w/emphasis again mine):

Men's greater inclination toward parenthood, however, seems to hold across every age group. While more than half the single men ages 21 to 35 wanted kids, only 46% of the women did. After that, the difference widens further, and not just out of biological reality. Only 16% of childless women in the still fertile years from 35 to 44 wanted kids; 27% of the men did. Plus, more women than men were prepared to say definitively that they were skipping parenthood.

"Women are much more interested in their independence than men are," says Fisher. They value certain parts of their single lives more than men do: according to the survey, women are likelier to want to have their own bank accounts, their own interests, their own personal space and solo vacations, even if they're in a committed relationship. They also care more about nights out with buddies.

Alice von Hildebrand was on EWTN Live the other night, and she stated without reservation that, in her opinion, Feminism is "the greatest victory that Satan has achieved since Original Sin" (around the 52:00 mark). Such a bold claim is actually pretty frightening when you consider the proven wisdom of who's saying it.

Men have known for a long time that work is work, and family is family. They also know we are supposed to work so we can live, we are not supposed to be living so we can work. In other words, men have for a very long intuitively understood that their jobs provide a living, and that it is why men are far more willing to do the dirtier jobs so long as they pay a reasonable wage.

On the other, women, imo, have fallen under the spell of thinking that their career defines them, and they pursue careers perhaps even with more ghusto, then do men, today. Yet, unlike men who have generally pursued jobs and careers to make a good living, women often pursue a career as a means to find something "they love to do."

Men generally ask themselves, "what am I good at?"

Women generally ask themselves, "what job can I do that I will really love?"

Woman, again imo, have also been convinced that they have somehow missed out on life during the times that they were largely stay-home-home moms and wives--to they try to fill that so-called gap by pursuing careers and men with genuine intensity. Ironically, men today are learning in increasing numbers that being home with their kids is a huge blessing as we see many more stay-at-home Dads.

[Elizium23]

OP links to a blog. Actual news story is here: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/n...-1226348149681

Also, I am curious about where these statistics came from in the first place. I couldn't turn up anything by Googling, but I got this from a government report:

The sex ratio relates to the number of males per 100 females in a population or sub population. The sex ratio at birth is approximately 105 males per 100 females. Higher male mortality rates at younger ages result in the ratio approaching 100 for the 30-64 years age group. Net Overseas Migration can also influence the sex ratio, especially in the younger working ages where there is often a greater proportion of male migrants. Above age 65, the sex ratio reduces markedly due to the impact of higher male mortality on this population group.

[PaulinVA]

Men of my generation (late baby boomer) where taught, either implicitly or explicitly, that our "fate", our "destiny" in life is to have a job and support a family. If you like your job, great, but it's not required. You are the provider and protector of your wife and kids.

It is now "patriarchal" and "overbearing" to hold that view. Women are off on their quest to find themselves, using their sexual freedom and birth control to be just as loose as men without consequences of pregnancy.

When you add that society has rejected who men are (as patriarchal pigs) and women just want to have jobs and consider kids a bad thing, there is a great confusion among young people. The natural law/natural order that God has imprinted upon our hearts is at odds with what society is telling us.

Some people have an easy time following the more traditional route, but many others are confused and alone and not very happy.

[Mrs Sally]

Originally Posted by BettyBoop416

The Church teaches that we get but one shot at marriage - no do-overs. And now the Church is saying not to be "too picky" when making this supposedly life-long choice?

This is just absurd.

Proper formation of young people's ideals and goals would help quite a bit. If teens and young adults thought more seriously of marriage and didn't think they had forever to date, pick and choose, potentially live with several different people first, than marriages would be stronger.

I know several couples who married "young" - early 20s as opposed to early 30s. They talk about forming their likes and dislikes together as a couple. In that way, they had less to be "choosy" about when they were younger because they didn't have as much life experience to try and match up with a spouse.

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

Men have known for a long time that work is work, and family is family. They also know we are supposed to work so we can live, we are not supposed to be living so we can work. In other words, men have for a very long intuitively understood that their jobs provide a living, and that it is why men are far more willing to do the dirtier jobs so long as they pay a reasonable wage.

On the other, women, imo, have fallen under the spell of thinking that their career defines them, and they pursue careers perhaps even with more ghusto, then do men, today. Yet, unlike men who have generally pursued jobs and careers to make a good living, women often pursue a career as a means to find something "they love to do."

Men generally ask themselves, "what am I good at?"

Women generally ask themselves, "what job can I do that I will really love?"

Woman, again imo, have also been convinced that they have somehow missed out on life during the times that they were largely stay-home-home moms and wives--to they try to fill that so-called gap by pursuing careers and men with genuine intensity. Ironically, men today are learning in increasing numbers that being home with their kids is a huge blessing as we see many more stay-at-home Dads.

Way over-generalised. I know plenty of men who have just the same attitude of 'my work is my love and my passion'. And whose families and friendships suffer as a result.

And plenty of women, being that they are more likely than men to be the in the lower-prestige lower-paid jobs that are not and will never be a source of fabulous wealth or enhanced status for them, who work to live rather than living to work.

[lerapt78]

Originally Posted by DaveBj

I'm reminded of a line I heard in a movie decades ago, to the effect that many women are so intent on finding Mr. Right that they aren't doing anything about becoming some man's Ms Right.

Of course, the same thing could be said about some men.

Somewhat true, unfortunately. Many of the women of my generation focus incessantly on which attributes their potential mates need to bring to the table, while often neglecting to identify and nurture those feminine qualities and expectations that will earn respect and devotion from their men.

Originally Posted by BettyBoop416

The Church teaches that we get but one shot at marriage - no do-overs. And now the Church is saying not to be "too picky" when making this supposedly life-long choice?

This is just absurd.

Yes, the proclamation is a bit misleading; I don't think the problem lies with being "too picky" - I think the problem is that people are too picky about the wrong things. It is extremely important to be discerning when it comes to choosing a mate; as you stated, it is a life-long choice, and it would be fool-hardy to enter into a commitment with someone if you did not weigh the other's attributes and values against your own to be sure of compatibility. The article should have stressed that it is important for the "prerequisite list" to contain a desire for qualities of a moral and responsible nature, and to cross off the requirements that are shallow and superficial.

Originally Posted by Pax2u

Have you ever watched the show "House Hunters"? When I listen to those spoiled young couples go on about how "the kitchen isn't big enough to entertain" or "I must have granite countertops" or "What??? No double sinks in the bathrooms?" I'm surprised that any of them are married LOL!!!

I always laugh at the desire for the large kitchen with granite countertops as well, mainly because all the women I've known who think it is so important don't even know how to cook! To them, it's more about appearance than actual function.

[GraceSofia]

Originally Posted by PaulinVA

I think this has to do with your philosophy of how God affects your everyday life.

If you believe that God has picked a spouse for you and it's your job to find him/her, you have to be extremely picky.

If you believe that you could actually live quite well with any number of people in your immediate area, then you will pick one of them and start your life.

This is interesting. Are both these views compatible with Catholicism?
Do many people believe that God has picked one specific person for them?

Australian church says women are “too choosy,”

I can remember my great-grandmother saying about one of her daughters, "She picked through the woods until she found a crooked stick." And this was a while back.

[7 Sorrows]

in my mid 20's i sought the help of a psychologist to try to get my life straightened out.
i was living in a small midwestern town at the time. i had a college degree. he accused me of being "too choosy" and i went into a guilt trip. i guess i felt i had done good things in my life and deserved to have someone treat me well. there was not a lot to choose from in this small town. most of the men my age abused alcohol and drugs. anyhow, i lowered my standards and my life went into a downward spiral. i lost my self respect.
so ladies, if anyone accuses you of being too choosy, ignore them. i am shocked that someone from the Australian Catholic church would make this statement. in my mid-twenties, i was hoping to meet the man who would be my husband for the rest of my life.
i wasn't raised in the Catholic church, but i did have Catholic values. i never wanted to be divorced.

[Captain America]

Originally Posted by AthenaC

Women don't become "too picky" in a vacuum. Men need to step it up. Women have every right to be picky, especially when you consider that in the traditional model of marriage where women are primarily responsible for child-rearing, the man can leave her and the children homeless and destitute on a whim. And that can happen even when you are very picky, because the bottom line is that no one knows for sure what choices people will make in the future.

Rather harsh. One could also say women have been taught, perhaps excessively, to be "consumers" and now are "consumers" of male product!

[Captain America]

Originally Posted by PaulinVA

Men of my generation (late baby boomer) where taught, either implicitly or explicitly, that our "fate", our "destiny" in life is to have a job and support a family. If you like your job, great, but it's not required. You are the provider and protector of your wife and kids.

It is now "patriarchal" and "overbearing" to hold that view. Women are off on their quest to find themselves, using their sexual freedom and birth control to be just as loose as men without consequences of pregnancy.

When you add that society has rejected who men are (as patriarchal pigs) and women just want to have jobs and consider kids a bad thing, there is a great confusion among young people. The natural law/natural order that God has imprinted upon our hearts is at odds with what society is telling us.

Some people have an easy time following the more traditional route, but many others are confused and alone and not very happy.

Great post; solid thinking. And how many women became disillusioned or unsatisfied in their Quest for Self-Worth through Employment?

[PaulinVA]

Originally Posted by GraceSofia

This is interesting. Are both these views compatible with Catholicism?
Do many people believe that God has picked one specific person for them?

Well, I do believe that my wife and I should be together, that somehow we are meant for each other.

BUT, I'm not sure that is a theologically-sound idea. I guess maybe it's that the graces conveyed by marriage make it possible to live a good, holy life with your spouse if you cooperate with the graces.

[Phemie]

Originally Posted by BettyBoop416

The Church teaches that we get but one shot at marriage - no do-overs. And now the Church is saying not to be "too picky" when making this supposedly life-long choice?

This is just absurd.

Well, not quite. We might get many shots at marriage -- unfortunately, that means someone died.

I know one woman who was married at 19. Widowed after two children, she re-married at 27; widowed again after two more children, she married for a third time at the age of 30, had a 40 year marriage and 7 children with this third husband, whom she outlived by 25 years.