Interpreting Scripture

peace2u2 · #1 Jun 5, '12, 10:24 am

A friend who practices their faith at a non-denominational church states that Romans Chapter 14 supports and is referring to the way Catholics treat other religions as inferior and that we are all the one, true Church who profess our faith and belief in Jesus and that it doesn't matter which church we worship God at because we are all Christians. Also, this person uses Luke 9:49-50 to support that we are all the one, true Church and that one Church shouldn't act like their better than another:

Luke 9:49-50
John answered, "Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us". But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you".

Is this person's interpretation of the above Scripture true or false?

CountrySteve · #2 Jun 5, '12, 12:04 pm

umm it has 2 be false, because God started one Church and one way, and if you believe something that contridicts what He taught, then your not of His Church or atleast thats what ive been told

**po18guy** · #3 Jun 5, '12, 12:16 pm

Are those the only two verses in their bible? The problem they have is that their interpretation is private, which scripture itself prohibits (2 Peter 1:20). I wonder if their bible has John 17:20-23 in it, in which Jesus prays for unity, and that God is revealed through the unity of His followers? Ask that friend if truth matters. If it does, then ask if a Church that has more truth is to be preferred to one which has less.

The Holy Spirit unites - always and everywhere.
The demon divides.

Scoobyshme · #4 Jun 5, '12, 12:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace2u2

A friend who practices their faith at a non-denominational church states that Romans Chapter 14 supports and is referring to the way Catholics treat other religions as inferior and that we are all the one, true Church who profess our faith and belief in Jesus and that it doesn't matter which church we worship God at because we are all Christians. Also, this person uses Luke 9:49-50 to support that we are all the one, true Church and that one Church shouldn't act like their better than another:

Luke 9:49-50
John answered, "Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us". But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you".

Is this person's interpretation of the above Scripture true or false?

Jesus only founded one Church, which St. Paul calls His Body. There was but one Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity, the Catholic Church. If one was Christian, one was Catholic. The two were synonymous. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Orthodox split off. Not until 1517 A.D. did Protestantism began. And since then, it has splintered into literally thousands of man-made, doctrinally disunified denominations, all founded on someone's personal interpretation of Scripture, which St. Peter speaks against in 2 Peter 1:20.

Whatever they believe that is what we believe, is good. Whatever they believe that is contrary to what we believe, is heresy.

srferdave · #5 Jun 5, '12, 12:41 pm

I think what that chapter is saying is that we, who do good for the Lord, whether that is from eating (for the Lord) or abstaining (for the Lord), are all trying to do the Lord's work and we should not condemn them from being apart of a different group/culture.
So to compare this to other non-Catholic Christians - I would say we are united with them on the beliefs that we share in common (ie Jesus resurrection, Jesus died for our sins, the Holy Trinity). And we are not suppose to judge or condemn them based on the beliefs that we share in common.
When a person says Jesus is Lord, that person is with us and not against us. So for that action we are united. But, it is still possible that we are not united on all of our beliefs. This chapter and verse are not saying that's not possible.

COPLAND 3 · #6 Jun 5, '12, 1:00 pm

Sounds like that person leans on the side of relativism, like there is no wrong position. Catholics dont think we are better than anyone, at lest we shouldnt, but we do believe that our faith is the fulness of the Gospel. I would ask that friend a question like this. If one church says that slavery is good, are they just as legit as the others? Or if one church says that you have to be baptized to go to heaven, and another says you dont, are both beliefs equal? That's a major difference, and if one is right about having to get baptized then the one that is wrong is leading many to hell! There are too many major differences that have eternal consequences to just say that we all are equal. We may be equal as value of human beings, but not equal in the value to living and teaching the fullness of the faith.

Neofight · #7 Jun 5, '12, 1:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace2u2

A friend who practices their faith at a non-denominational church states that Romans Chapter 14 supports and is referring to the way Catholics treat other religions as inferior and that we are all the one, true Church who profess our faith and belief in Jesus and that it doesn't matter which church we worship God at because we are all Christians. Also, this person uses Luke 9:49-50 to support that we are all the one, true Church and that one Church shouldn't act like their better than another:

Luke 9:49-50
John answered, "Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us". But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you".

Is this person's interpretation of the above Scripture true or false?

St. Bede puts it in proper prospective, I think, when he remarked that in the case of heretics, it is not their sacraments which they hold in common with us, but their divisions, so contrary to the truth and peace we ought to detest and strive to ammend.

So, if what they were doing was good and righteous, let it be, don't forbid them....however if we are going to forbid something it should be their obviously false and detestable dogma.

Another example, I would say, of Christs command for us to love...brings to mind 2 Thes 3:14-15, where Paul says not to associate with those who do not believe the words of the apostles, but when we do condemn someone for false doctrine, we "do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother>'

Like Christ, we don't want to condemn men, or rejoice in their destruction; rather we want to forgive them, and rejoice in their conversion!

Amen and Pax to all!

peace2u2 · #8 Jun 5, '12, 1:15 pm

Thanks for all your posts. I will write down those Words from 2 Peter 1:20 and John 17:20-23 and use Scripture to defend the Catholic Faith. Thanks also for the links to the Aquinas Bible Study and Mass Readings. Very helpful.

I've tried explaining that Jesus came to estabish one Church with one set of doctrines that only the Catholic Church has taught and safeguarded from the beginning and we may be united in our belief in who Jesus is, the fact remains that we are separated in things that Jesus taught like Infant Baptism, The Real Presence of Jesus in The Eucharist, Marriage and Divorce and that when we confess our sins in the Sacrament of Confession, it really is God we are confessing to and that the Catholic Priest is Jesus' Representative on earth and was given this power to absolve sins on our souls by Jesus.

I find alot of times, family and friends really dislike the fullness of God's Truth being preached to them by a family member or friend. They would rather hear it from a stranger!

Peace

57Bill · #9 Jun 5, '12, 1:36 pm

Well, Where Paul was teaching there were worshippers of multiple gods, Christians, Jews...and maybe but I doubt the Gnostics even had a toenail in the sand, then. What the heck else could he possibly be suggesting otherwise?

Nicea325 · #10 Jun 5, '12, 2:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace2u2

A friend who practices their faith at a non-denominational church states that Romans Chapter 14 supports and is referring to the way Catholics treat other religions as inferior and that we are all the one, true Church who profess our faith and belief in Jesus and that it doesn't matter which church we worship God at because we are all Christians. Also, this person uses Luke 9:49-50 to support that we are all the one, true Church and that one Church shouldn't act like their better than another:

Luke 9:49-50
John answered, "Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us". But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you".

Is this person's interpretation of the above Scripture true or false?

The underlined and highlighted words begs the question: If we are ALL Christians,then why the need to found thousands of different denominations?

COPLAND 3 · #11 Jun 5, '12, 4:39 pm

As for the passage in Luke 9:49-50, which parallels Mark 9:37-39, I think St. Bede makes a great point, that is, we should not forbid even heretics who perform some sacraments correctly and authentically. But it does not mean that we approve their errors nor compromise what we believe. The Church teaches that, identifying our separated brethren as being united to us by Baptism. Some are Christians, but lacking communion with the Church that Christ established and also lacking the fullness of the Gospel.

Here is what St. Bede says

Quote:

Therefore in heretics and false Catholics, it becomes us to abhor, and forbid not the common sacraments in which they are with us, and not against us, but the divisions contrary to peace and truth, wherein they are against us as following not the Lord.

JonathonofOhio · #12 Jun 11, '12, 7:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by COPLAND 3

As for the passage in Luke 9:49-50, which parallels Mark 9:37-39, I think St. Bede makes a great point, that is, we should not forbid even heretics who perform some sacraments correctly and authentically. But it does not mean that we approve their errors nor compromise what we believe. The Church teaches that, identifying our separated brethren as being united to us by Baptism. Some are Christians, but lacking communion with the Church that Christ established and also lacking the fullness of the Gospel.

Here is what St. Bede says

Sound advice...I would agree with him that no one should behave like they are better than anyone else, but also I would point out the fallacy your friend has fallen into: The fallacy of composition - when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole. While some Catholics may think they are better than those who are non catholics (or perhaps just better off), not all catholics feel the same way.

submariner2 · #13 Jun 12, '12, 11:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicea325

The underlined and highlighted words begs the question: If we are ALL Christians,then why the need to found thousands of different denominations?

Nicea,

All might be christians yet be divided in doctrines regarding what doctines are important.
Also some christians might feel they can practice their faith in a more relevan manner as part of another denomination. It seems to me that Jesus wanted us to be unified as christians regardless of those minore doctrinal differences.

Rob

Scoobyshme · #14 Jun 13, '12, 10:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner2

Nicea,

All might be christians yet be divided in doctrines regarding what doctines are important.
Also some christians might feel they can practice their faith in a more relevan manner as part of another denomination. It seems to me that Jesus wanted us to be unified as christians regardless of those minore doctrinal differences.

Rob

Rob,

Doctrines are the teaching of Christ. What did Christ teach? The Truth. What is the Truth? Jesus, Himself, Who said, "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life..." So, is it important whether we get all his doctrines right or not? You bet! I am reminded of Gal. 1:8, which says, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach [to you] a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!"

The teachings of Christ are an integrated whole. I like to give the example of mathematics. Say I made the statement, "I love math! I love everything about math! I really do! I love subtraction, multiplication, division, algebra, etc. Well, except maybe addition. I really don't believe in addition. But the rest, I certainly do!" What would I have, with regard to math? Nothing! Why? Because addition is integral to math. With out it, you have none of the rest of it. Giving lip service to loving it does nothing for me with regard to math.

The same is truth for the Christian faith. If we reject one doctrine, we lost the rest. Christ's truth cannot be sliced and diced into pieces we chose or reject.

I'm not talking about individual culpability with regard to Christ's doctrines. Some folks are certainly sincere in their search for Christ, but are in error through no fault of their own. That's for God to judge, not us. But we are to be "fruit inspectors." And we are to try to help our fellow man know the fullness of Christ's truths, even if it upsets them. Charity is not defined by how nice someone feels, but by how we do what is best for the other person. Teaching the fullness of Christ's truth is always best. When we do that, His grace accompanies the teaching.

Crumpy · #15 Jun 15, '12, 9:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace2u2

A friend who practices their faith at a non-denominational church states that Romans Chapter 14 supports and is referring to the way Catholics treat other religions as inferior and that we are all the one, true Church who profess our faith and belief in Jesus and that it doesn't matter which church we worship God at because we are all Christians. Also, this person uses Luke 9:49-50 to support that we are all the one, true Church and that one Church shouldn't act like their better than another:

Luke 9:49-50
John answered, "Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us". But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he that is not against you is for you".

Is this person's interpretation of the above Scripture true or false?

Paul's epistles teach a lot about what is right for a Christian and what is not. He was fighting variations, defections, and apostacies from correct dogma and practice. No, we're not all the same, if we can take Paul at his word.