OB/GYNs and birth control? - Page 5

underacloud · #61 May 30, '12, 7:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

That is where your ignorance shows; pregnancy and abortion are medical terms, that is why you receive prenatal care. A life is not a life until a zygote is formed. Cells are a matter of science, not a matter of faith. The Church cannot give a definition to something they do not know about, that would be like you or me trying to create a new law of physics.

The pill and IUDs are not abortifacient. Something that is abortifacient is something that works to end a pregnancy. Abortifacient is a scientific term, created by scientists. What authority or expertise does the Church have to that this definition is wrong?

Emergency contraception, like the morning after pill, is abortifacient, which is a form of contraception that I do not agree with.

You seem to be very aggressive and I'm not sure why you have a need to label me ignorant. I'd prefer you were more polite, but nevertheless, lets keep the conversation going.

The Church teaches that life begins with fertilisation, which is the forming of a zygote. So you seem to agree with that point? The beginning of life is a matter of both science and morals, so it is definitely a matter for the Church to involve itself in (and for Catholics to be guided by the Church in). But since you agree that life begins with the formation of a zygote, we can work from the same premise.

Something that prevents a zygote from implanting ends that life. Many zygotes fail to implant naturally - that's a matter for God to deal with. Where birth control acts in a manner that prevents the zygote from implanting, it is called abortifacient (by the Church, regardless of how some people in the medical community view it). A doctor who prescribes abortifacient birth control is material cooperating in something that the Church condemns.

IUDs and the pill both act as abortifacients by affecting the uterine lining and making implantation difficult. For some IUDs, this may be the primary mechanism. For hormonal IUDs and the pill, this may be a secondary mechanism. Either way, a Catholic doctor acting in cooperation with Church teaching cannot tolerate this.

You say that you do not agree with emergency contraception, but do you realise that copper IUDs are used for this very purpose? Their mechanism is certainly abortifacient.

Corki · #62 May 30, '12, 7:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

The pill and IUDs prevent it from fertilizing, the life is not yet created, therefore it cannot be called an abortion, which is the termination of an existing pregnancy.

I think you need to do a little more research on this. The pill has multiple actions. It's primary action is to prevent ovulation. It does not act to prevent fertilization. If ovulation occurs, it is quite possible that fertilization will too. In that case, the secondary action of the "pill" is to prevent implantation. This is where the term abortifacient comes in with regard to the pill.

IUDs are even more insidious. The primary action of these devices is to prevent implantation. Some of the newer versions are infused with hormones which act the same as the pill. But the device itself does not prevent ovulation or fertilization.

If fertilization occurs but implantation is prevented a miscarriage (also called a spontaneous abortion) occurs. Of course, that's not what makes contraception immoral, but it is an ugly side effect of an already immoral act.

Dan Grelinger · #63 May 30, '12, 7:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

The pill and IUDs prevent it from fertilizing, the life is not yet created, therefore it cannot be called an abortion, which is the termination of an existing pregnancy.

Seems to be that not all agree with you...

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/birth...article_em.htm

How an IUD Works

Hormonal and copper IUDs work in different ways. With a copper IUD, a small amount of copper is released into the uterus. This type of IUD does not affect ovulation or the menstrual cycle. Copper IUDs prevent sperm from being able to go into the egg by immobilizing the sperm on the way to the fallopian tubes. If an egg does become fertilized, implantation on the wall of the uterus is prevented because copper changes the lining of the uterus.
With hormonal IUDs, a small amount of progestin or a similar hormone is released into the uterus. These hormones thicken cervical mucus and make it difficult for sperm to enter the cervix. Hormonal IUDs also slow down the growth of the uterine lining, making it inhospitable for fertilized eggs.

**1ke** · #64 May 30, '12, 7:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

The pill and IUDs prevent it from fertilizing, the life is not yet created, therefore it cannot be called an abortion, which is the termination of an existing pregnancy.

This is partially correct. This is one mechanism. This is not the only way in which the Pill and the IUD act. They also act to make the uterine lining inhospitable so that a conceived zygote cannot implant. They can be early stage abortifacients. This is not an opinion, it is a fact contained in the very literature given to doctors and patients.

PumpkinSeed · #65 May 30, '12, 7:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

Drunkenness is a sin, yet they still used alcohol for medicinal purposes in Biblical times, and even up to the prohibition.

And? What does that have to do with giving a woman birth control?

Would you prescribe birth control for your daughter or someone in your family?

If not, why? If it is 'their choice' to make, why not give it to someone you care about? Because you KNOW its wrong.

Well, you should care for all people whether they are related to you or not. Do what you know is right. The church teaches birth control is not allowed, so it would be best not to give it to someone.

smiddle · #66 May 30, '12, 7:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PumpkinSeed

And? What does that have to do with giving a woman birth control?

Would you prescribe birth control for your daughter or someone in your family?

If not, why? If it is 'their choice' to make, why not give it to someone you care about? Because you KNOW its wrong.

Well, you should care for all people whether they are related to you or not. Do what you know is right. The church teaches birth control is not allowed, so it would be best not to give it to someone.

Actually, providing family members with prescriptions is unethical

.

PumpkinSeed · #67 May 30, '12, 8:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

Actually, providing family members with prescriptions is unethical

.

Alright. Well if you're going to be a catholic, I just want you to know that birth control is not allowed.

I guess you can do what you want with that info.

Dies_Irae · #68 Jun 3, '12, 9:18 am

Dear Smiddle,

you need to :

1- finish high school/college
2- review very thoroughly your embryology and pharmacology notes (if you've already made it to M2)
3- speak to a holy priest about this.

birth control and abortions are not "rights". you should be following you well-formed conscience.

signed,

a catholic MD

Catholic80 · #69 Jun 3, '12, 2:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

I know indefinitely that I am going to become an OB/GYN. My mother is one and I want to become one to help women, and I believe this is the best way how.
......
I'm basically asking if my view on this is acceptable, or if I could somehow face repercussions for my actions when my time comes?

A couple of things you said jumped out when I read it.

Quote:

I would rather someone wait until they are married and be ready to have a child than to have a baby out of wedlock and have an impure child.

How would the child be impure? The impurity of the parents does not make the child impure.

Quote:

she is also very sensitive to cases of abuse.

Maybe I misread this, but are you saying your mother offers BC in cases where she believes there is abuse? If so, that is HIGHLY unethical. All cases of suspected abuse need to be reported, and offering BC to a minor who is being abused only furthers to hide the abuse

As per your question about whether handing out BC is okay or not, what does your conscience tell you? You mention that you are morally opposed to it, but do not want to inflict your belief on others. Is that really the reason, or is it out of fear of telling your patients that you do not prescribe BC because of your beliefs?

You mentioned that you believe coitus is for procreation, but the Catholic Church doesn't teach it exactly like you put it. Marital sex is also for pleasure and bonding, but should always be OPEN to procreation. But procreation does not have to necessarily be the incentive for sex. This is the reason the Church disapproves artificial BC.

What I would recommend is that you do some serious research and study on this. This will help you form your decision more firmly, so you will be able to say to your patients, "I do not recommend BC because of X Y and Z."

Lastly, if you don't practice what you believe, then do you really believe it at all? If you don't believe in BC, but prescribe it, is it really different than an doctor who doesn't believe in abortion but performs one anyway?

smiddle · #70 Jun 3, '12, 5:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catholic80

Maybe I misread this, but are you saying your mother offers BC in cases where she believes there is abuse? If so, that is HIGHLY unethical. All cases of suspected abuse need to be reported, and offering BC to a minor who is being abused only furthers to hide the abuse

This thread is pretty much dead, but I will answer this question for you. My mother was repeatedly abused as a child and no one was there to help her. Although she is lucky and did not have a child, this is not the case for everyone. DCFS does not always do its job properly or there is not enough "evidence" for them to remove a child from the situation. My mother has called them, and the police several times before under any suspicion of wrongdoing (she gets a lot of possible statutory rape cases), so she is doing her job properly and not being unethical. In my opinion, I would rather have someone sin and use birth control than repeatedly bear a child from their abuser, especially if it is someone that they are related to by blood.

You may say that no matter what, God will not be okay with it, but we do not know what God thinks or what He is willing to do. I'd like to think that He is pretty understanding.

Dan Grelinger · #71 Jun 3, '12, 6:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

In my opinion, I would rather have someone sin and use birth control than repeatedly bear a child from their abuser, especially if it is someone that they are related to by blood.

You may say that no matter what, God will not be okay with it, but we do not know what God thinks or what He is willing to do. I'd like to think that He is pretty understanding.

1. I find it hard to believe that there would be more than one child formed from abuse, as you suggest. Unless you live in a VERY uncivilized country. With today's technology, a child is the best evidence there is of abuse.

2. Would this be your conclusion if you knew that 'birth control' can possibly kill a child that God has created? You seemed to be confused about that before, and would not indicate you have become more informed. In the case you knowingly and willfully were complicit in the death of one of God's little ones, He certainly would understand, and I would feel most sorry for you as a result.

Two wrongs never make a right. No matter how much we want to believe it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I see a lot of good intentions being used to justify immoral acts. The ends never justify the means if the means are illicit to begin with.

underacloud · #72 Jun 3, '12, 10:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiddle

This thread is pretty much dead

Actually, there are many of us who have been trying to have a conversation with you, but you seemed to have stopped conversing with us. Anyway, I hope you have found some food for thought based on the responses you've received and a few pertinent links. It's great to have more Catholics looking to practice in this area. Hopefully you can find a way to reconcile professional ethics in this area with your Catholic faith and relevant moral considerations.

enbell · #73 Jun 4, '12, 2:07 am

Dear Smiddle,
I am praying for you in hopes you come to understand what the church teaches regarding birth control. If you pursue a medical profession you have the opportunity to affect the lives of many individuals. As Catholic MD, the chances to touch the lives of your patients while following the teachings of the church are endless! I hope you are able to accept the true teachings regarding birth control so that as a doctor, you are able to show others life is valuable from the very start! Very best of luck!

Prayers,
Erin

Anemone1 · #74 Jun 6, '12, 6:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ke

NO.

A Catholic OB/GYN may not prescribe any contraception. We may NEVER do evil and we may not cooperate in evill. To prescribe contraception is to formally cooperate in it. That is grave matter.

I suggest you contact both the National Catholic Bioethics Center and the Catholic Medical Association for guidance on the matter.

This. We know that contraception is a grave matter. Even if your patients do not believe this, to administer BC would be a grave matter, as you would be the facilitator.

The world needs more Catholic obgyns practicing their faith.

LaFleurDeLis · #75 Jun 7, '12, 2:58 pm

Just putting in my two cents...

Birth control does not "treat" any type of problem it merely covers it up. BC pumps women full of hormones and masks the problems that they are truly having. Once the women stops BC, the problems will return.

In addition, you said that BC does not cause abortions, when in fact it does. More times than can be determined has an egg implanted in the uterine lining and then been shed with that same lining during the week of sugar pills the woman takes.

If you are strong in your Catholic faith, I suggest looking into becoming a NaPro doctor. I believe you would still be a OB/GYN, but instead of using any types of contraceptives you would look to Natural Family Planning and the charting of a womans cycle through methods such as Sympto-thermal, Marquette Model, Billings Ovulation Method, and the Creighton Model. This would be the path I would choose so as not to find myself in a morally questionable situation. Also, NaPro doctors are very few and many Catholics who wish to use NFP and avoid contraceptives find it very difficult to find an NaPro doctor close to them.

Just remember, you posed your question here for feedback, but I'm getting the feeling that you were simply wanting validation for yourself. Instead, you have received responses stating differently than what you would like.

Pray, let God help guide you.