Do Not Turn Into a Fight - 10 Reasons to Love the EF - Page 8

RogerDeCourcy · #**106** Jun 9, '12, 3:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

I agree that there is bad music out there but it is not used everywhere. There is nothing wrong with the use of musical instruments besides the organ or piano. It all depends on how they are used. Actually I dislike the organ. I find organ music to be horrible and in no way uplifting. It detracts from the Mass for me.

You are in a minority about organ music. The scholas I know are very happy when they can get an organist to play.

The connotations of other instruments are wrong. Folk music in the West has degenerated into a repetition of a simple-minded chorus, often about sex. Guitars are the intrument of the troubador singing about forbidden love. This style is inserted into a supposedly mystical rite, where they sing banal songs up made up a few years ago.

When one questions this, the prating begins. "We should concentrate of Jesus! It's still the Mass. Can't we all just get along?"

Indeed we can. To the nearest TLM.

triumphguy · #**107** Jun 9, '12, 5:36 pm

St. Francis was a troubadour.

St. Clare sang about unobtainable love.

I bet a few saints have played the guitar.

St. Cecilia, patron saint of music and NOT playing the organ.

The Curt Jester · #**108** Jun 9, '12, 6:12 pm

She's not playing an electric guitar either!

triumphguy · #**109** Jun 9, '12, 6:19 pm

Er.... forgive me, I may be wrong - but I don't think they had electricity then.

They did have wood and cats and that's what they used!

And having played the violin to grade 5 I can tell you I would rather listen to a guitar in church than a poorly played violin!

TrueLight · #**110** Jun 9, '12, 6:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

St. Francis was a troubadour.

St. Clare sang about unobtainable love.

I bet a few saints have played the guitar.

St. Cecilia, patron saint of music and NOT playing the organ.

No one is against learning and playing diverse instruments. We're talking about Mass!

The Curt Jester · #**111** Jun 9, '12, 6:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

Er.... forgive me, I may be wrong - but I don't think they had electricity then.

True. But they didn't have violins back then either.

triumphguy · #**112** Jun 9, '12, 6:54 pm

Lutes, lyres, ten stringed harps? Trumpets, drums? Bagpipes?

They certainly didn't have pipe organs in 230 AD!

The Curt Jester · #**113** Jun 9, '12, 6:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

Lutes, lyres, ten stringed harps? Trumpets, drums? Bagpipes?

They certainly didn't have pipe organs in 230 AD!

Organs were actually invented a long time ago. They weren't anything fancy, in fact, I'm sure nothing more than primitive, but they had them. I read they had one in one of the coliseums. Slave power!

triumphguy · #**114** Jun 9, '12, 7:25 pm

Reasons to love the EF as sung and accompanied by a guitar:

The Ballad of Summorum Pontificum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=YSMAacrCkMw#!

Here's the lyrics ('cos you guys always need to know the words since you can't hear them

).

Quote:

It was the 7th July 2007
"The most beautiful day
This side of Heaven"

A treasure was released
The Mass of all Ages
The Missal was closed
Now a Priest turns the pages

So we kneel down and pray the Confiteor
Now he's facing the right way, towards the Lord
Ad Deum quit laetificat juvemtutem meum
He turns around and the people say give us some more!

For over 50 years
A Mass that lay hidden
Came out of the closet
No moth there had bitten

No dust was upon it
For this Mass is timeless
You can tell when you walk through the door!

You can hear the bells ring out thrice at the Sanctus
He turns around and he says "Oratre Fratres"
Priest and people pray Domine non sum dignus
And the people say give us some more

Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more, give us some more!

Ecce Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi
Now we can hear the words ring out
Every Sunday
The Latin Mass is back
Put your guitars on the floor
We have Communion kneeling and on the tongue

All ages they pass
All ages they vary
The Mass of Ages belongs
In our seminaries

Our Bishops they don't want it
Oh if only they could
Say "God bless our Pope
The great and the good!"

Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more!

The Mass that brings sinners
To the Fountain of grace
The Mass that made martyrs
Embrace their pains
The Mass that brought hope
To the poor and abandoned
Finding in Jesus (bow head)
The perfect Companion
But that Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
You might find one today!

Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more!
(Repeat x 2)

It was the 7th July 2007
"The most beautiful day
This side of Heaven"

TS Aquinas · #**115** Jun 9, '12, 7:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

Reasons to love the EF as sung and accompanied by a guitar:

The Ballad of Summorum Pontificum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=YSMAacrCkMw#!

Joy Therese · #**116** Jun 9, '12, 7:46 pm

Sorry to interrupt an amusing side conversation, but if I may post the reasons why I love the Extraordinary Form:

Note: Sorry if my theology is dodgy here; my catechesis is not as complete as I would like it to be, and I am working to correct that. Please let me know if anything I say isn't in line with orthodoxy.

1. The silence! It's like an invitation to contemplative prayer. I grew up in an OF parish whose members love to "make a joyful noise", which is wonderful for them, but I simply can't focus on praying the Mass! I find myself craving silence after receiving Holy Communion, and I've found that the EF allows more time for personal communion with the Most High.

2. Also, the music. I've been told (and I don't know if this is actually true or not) that sacred Chant, particularly Gregorian Chant, is the form of sound most pleasing to the human brain. When implemented well and with zeal, I find that the Extraordinary Form provides the perfect balance of sacred silence and sacred music.

3. As others have said, it's essentially the same Mass celebrated by St. Maximilian Kolbe, St. Pio, St. Louis de Montefort, and loved by St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Edith Stein, Chesterton, St. Gianna Molla, Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati, and so many other spiritual heroes!

4. The Latin. There is an old story that Dr. John Tolkien (he of the Lord of the Rings) adored the Latin Mass, and was greatly perturbed at the post-Vatican II linguistic changes. He was so irritated, in fact, that he continued to respond in Latin even after his parish began celebrating the Ordinary Form, much to his family's horror.

Of course, Tolkien was a gifted linguist, so he probably understood the Latin better than 99% of the other congregants.

5. The beauty. For me, there is nothing on earth so beautiful as the Elevation of the Eucharist at the Consecration. To see Christ's presence manifested at last, and His total gift of Self made for our salvation presented with such reverence and love...My heart breaks every time. It is truly an invitation to us to unite ourselves to Him.

6. This is kind of silly, but the option to cover my head with a pretty piece of lace! It makes me feel like a bride.

7. The completeness of it. I once brought a Jewish friend of mine (who occasionally goes to OF Mass) with me to an EF Mass, after which she told me that it was "easy to see" where the Mass is taken directly from the Hebrew liturgy. I mean, our faith is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses, right?

8. The sense of continuity, of the permeation of faith throughout the rest of one's life. Perhaps this is a culturally- and geographically-specific thing, but I find it easier to "live the Mass" after being part of such a beautiful manifestation of it.

9. The people! We Catholics are all a rag-tag bunch of fallen sinners anyway, but I find that the EF tends to attract certain types of people who understand each other. It's as though we fogies, young and old alike, are banding together to survive, but our uniting force is Life Itself.

10. My grandmother loved the Latin Mass. We have her daily missal from 1962, and, even though she died before I was born, attending the same Mass she attended makes me feel closer to her. (She attended the OF, but I'm told she had a special love for the EF.)

Also, this ballad is hilarious! Good and licit, I say!

TimothyH · #**117** Jun 9, '12, 9:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

Er.... forgive me, I may be wrong - but I don't think they had electricity then.

They did have wood and cats and that's what they used!

And having played the violin to grade 5 I can tell you I would rather listen to a guitar in church than a poorly played violin!

There's too much violins in society. I'm against violins on TV.

We are supposed to love each other. Of all places, why in the world would we want violins at Mass? What if there was an act of violins against the priest or one of your family? How would you feel?

Wasn't Christ into non-violins?

No, I'm against it.

-Tim-

RogerDeCourcy · #**118** Jun 10, '12, 1:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

St. Francis was a troubadour.

St. Clare sang about unobtainable love.

I bet a few saints have played the guitar.

St. Cecilia, patron saint of music and NOT playing the organ.

That's a bit of a stretch to support that guitar music, especially the soppy kind,is OK at a sacrifice offered to a god.

[Wonders if pagans, at the key moment in their sombre ceremony before a strange effigy, then get a teenager to strum a few bars of "We love you, Mammon, you are so nice"]

**LilyM** · #**119** Jun 10, '12, 2:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

That's a bit of a stretch to support that guitar music, especially the soppy kind,is OK at a sacrifice offered to a god.

[Wonders if pagans, at the key moment in their sombre ceremony before a strange effigy, then get a teenager to strum a few bars of "We love you, Mammon, you are so nice"]

I suppose not, but then again they probably would've done all sorts of lovely things like sacrificing children, 'religious' sexual orgies, 'worshipful' drunkenness or drug-taking, or at least sacrificing animals, that we wouldn't dream of incorporating into our worship.

And most of their ceremonies, unsurprisingly, would actually have been anything but somber. Naked young men running around Rome giving women a playful whipping anyone? The Lupercalia sounds very lively to say the least

Not everything traditional is better, especially when we're talking pagan methods of worship!

RogerDeCourcy · #**120** Jun 10, '12, 3:55 am

My point is, that if one esteems one's god and he is powerful and judgemental, one doesn't ladle on banality to the sacred rite. Stand back and look at what's happened to the Roman rite, from the perspective of an outsider. Or someone who hadn't gone to mass in fifty years. It's strange, to put it mildly. And if it's supposed to reinvigorate the Church, it hasn't worked.

Another fifty years of explanations will likely produce the same effect as the previous fifty.