Should a person be 'happy' living in this miserable and corrupt world? - Page 2

tabycat · #16 Jun 11, '12, 10:46 am

We either choose to be happy knowing that we are following and serving the Lord or be miserable and corrupt as world is If it is the second, the devil has won. :

shoe · #17 Jun 11, '12, 3:19 pm

I think that being "Happy" in the Biblical sense means that happiness stems from our faith and our union with God through Christ and is not based on our material possessions or any specific set of circumstances. I think for the Christian being happy is simply one of the beneficial side effects of knowing that the God who created the universe is the God who created us. And so even though our own world may be "filled with pain and suffering," we can be spiritually happy in knowing "...that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints" (Romans 8:28).

meltzerboy · #18 Jun 11, '12, 8:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

I have great respect for the Jewish way of life. In Catholicism, however, it is common for Saints to prefer suffering over 'happiness.' It is said that Saints do there purgatory here on earth. It's interesting to note these, and other, differences and similarities between these two great world religions.

And again in respect to Job, he was not joyful or happy. This was my main point.

If it is true that Saints prefer to suffer in this world to the point of Purgatory and are admired for this, then that is a major difference between Catholicism and Judaism. Apart from there not being any Saints in Judaism, we believe that the physical and emotional self is not meant to be diminished in this life, for that would be a rejection of the gift of life bestowed by G-d. As I previously mentioned, we believe it is necessary to immerse ourselves with joy in the mundane affairs of the world in an attempt to make it a better place. This attention to self (as well as to others) also differentiates Judaism from Buddhism and Hinduism. Thank you for the information.

john78 · #19 Jun 11, '12, 8:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose 'happiness'? It seems that we should all be 'saintly' and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be 'happy.' Earthly 'happiness' is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, "Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . ." (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, ". . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)

Fairly easy to say yes why even try to be happy;

But I ask why wouldnt one want to be happy ? The same for the redemption Christ offers us, we say yeah right, or no i have done way to many horrible things in life, and Christ is still there offering us his hand and telling us he will still save us, Christ offers us eternal joy and life with and in Him and in the after life with Him in Heaven. So why would anyone want to reject that ?

Why live for oneself and just accumulate all the wealth you can now when you know you're going to die and cant take it with you... why not make the world a better place at the very least and help others...

so am i happy every day ? of course not, probably more troubled than anything everyday, but if there is a chance for even a minute or peace and happyness here on Earth, and i can share it with others then im going to.

Qoeleth · #20 Jun 12, '12, 2:28 am

Obviously, anyone over the age of ten years old realises, deep in their hearts, that earthly happiness is impossible. And if the best human being, Jesus, was the "man of sorrows", how can we expect anything better.

However, some people choose to feign happiness to cheer up other people. This is commendable, as long as they know they are doing it as a sacrifice.

Some people lie to themselves of course. These are the people who seem to be happy, then have sudden outburst of road-rage, or watch mindless rubbish on TV, or something.

However, a state of joy IS possible- when we realise that this world is not real, just an illusion, a passing vanity, a lie, a deception. Keep our hearts on heavenly joys, and remember that the pain of living unites us with Jesus. etc. That's the way to achieve true joy.

It's also possible to achieve a kind of Stoic indifference. Just remember, everything is passing, and soon enough, we to will pass.

But remember, unhappiness is actually a great blessing. "Blessed are those who mourn, etc." And remember, St. Francis prayed above all, that he might share in the suffering of Christ, in body and in soul. Here a helpful tip from Saint Giles:

"If thou wouldst live well, mortify thyself; if thou wouldst gain much and become rich, lose and become poor; if thou wouldst enjoy thyself and take thine ease, afflict thyself, and continually fear and distrust thyself; if thou wouldst be exalted and had in honour, humble and reproach thyself; if thou wouldst be reverenced, despise thyself, and do reverence to those who despise and reproach thee; if thou wouldst always receive good, continually endure evil; if thou wouldst be blessed, desire that all men should curse thee and speak evil of thee; if thou wouldst enjoy true and eternal repose, labour and afflict thyself, and desire every kind of temporal suffering."

E.M Cioran says that on Judgment Day, only our tears will be weighed. And remember, "Woe unto ye that laugh".

tabycat · #21 Jun 12, '12, 3:06 pm

To turn the question around: Should a person living in a miserable and corrupt world be as miserable and corrupt as the world around them?

Robert Sock · #22 Jun 13, '12, 9:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabycat

To turn the question around: Should a person living in a miserable and corrupt world be as miserable and corrupt as the world around them?

No, of course not. Perhaps they should feel joy in that they get to suffer for Christ. But, happy, no way.

tabycat · #23 Jun 13, '12, 11:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

No, of course not. Perhaps they should feel joy in that they get to suffer for Christ. But, happy, no way.

You not happy serving the Lord? (sigh)

JDaniel · #24 Jun 13, '12, 1:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose 'happiness'? It seems that we should all be 'saintly' and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be 'happy.' Earthly 'happiness' is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, "Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . ." (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, ". . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)

Roberto:

Should a person be so happy living in this world that they don't look forward to eternity?

God bless,
jd

WillP · #25 Jun 13, '12, 1:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose 'happiness'? It seems that we should all be 'saintly' and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be 'happy.' Earthly 'happiness' is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, "Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . ." (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, ". . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)

Robert Sock · #26 Jun 13, '12, 2:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDaniel

Roberto:

Should a person be so happy living in this world that they don't look forward to eternity?

God bless,
jd

There is a big difference between Christian joy and earthly happiness. Religious joy is a virtue, but happiness has secularism at its roots.

WillP · #27 Jun 13, '12, 2:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose 'happiness'? It seems that we should all be 'saintly' and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be 'happy.' Earthly 'happiness' is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, "Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . ." (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, ". . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)

The purpose to be achieved in this life is to live a complete, fulfilling and productive existence. The Greeks used to say that true happiness is the full use of one's powers along lines of excellence. That is to be physically, intellectually, artistically and ethically all that one can be.When I was growing up, we used to refer to a kid who could do it all as an "all arounder". That is what we need to aspire toward.

I would be the first to agree with most of you that we live in a depraved materialistic and world devoid of values, but, religion and beliefs in otherworldly doctrines are, in my opinion, a distraction from what is worthwhile in inculcating worthy values and an obstacle to the enhancement of the human state. For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from. Rigid adherence to medeval creeds and ritualistic practices, serve no purpose, but, only deter us from progressive and innovative modes of thought. We need values grounded in reality not superstition if, what we mean by "values" are those qualities which give meaning to our lives.

We need to seek truth through means based in reality rather than subtle forms of witchcraft. We need to enhance human well being and uplift human dignity, not impair it by foisting a make believe morality onto an already depraved and pleasure seeking culture, particularly now with nearly 7 billion of us on this planet.

JDaniel · #28 Jun 13, '12, 3:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillP

The purpose to be achieved in this life is to live a complete, fulfilling and productive existence. The Greeks used to say that true happiness is the full use of one's powers along lines of excellence. That is to be physically, intellectually, artistically and ethically all that one can be.When I was growing up, we used to refer to a kid who could do it all as an "all arounder". That is what we need to aspire toward.

I would be the first to agree with most of you that we live in a depraved materialistic and world devoid of values, but, religion and beliefs in otherworldly doctrines are, in my opinion, a distraction from what is worthwhile in inculcating worthy values and an obstacle to the enhancement of the human state. For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from. Rigid adherence to medeval creeds and ritualistic practices, serve no purpose, but, only deter us from progressive and innovative modes of thought. We need values grounded in reality not superstition if, what we mean by "values" are those qualities which give meaning to our lives.

We need to seek truth through means based in reality rather than subtle forms of witchcraft. We need to enhance human well being and uplift human dignity, not impair it by foisting a make believe morality onto an already depraved and pleasure seeking culture, particularly now with nearly 7 billion of us on this planet.

Will:

Welcome to CAF. I take it you're either an atheist, or an anti-theist? Is that a good guess?

God bless,
jd

seagal · #29 Jun 13, '12, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillP

For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from

Not to derail the thread, but would you give an example of a religious doctrine that perpetuates misery and poverty in the world?

WillP · #30 Jun 13, '12, 5:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagal

Not to derail the thread, but would you give an example of a religious doctrine that perpetuates misery and poverty in the world?

your beliefs on contraception is an excellent example. 7 billion people on this planet isn't enough? The effects of your position on this issue is felt nowhere as acutely as sub-Sahra Africa. Increased disease, grinding poverty, what do we have to thank for such malfunctioning societies?