JW's: If Jesus is the archangel Michael,then the Messiah in the OT is Michael?

[T More]

Originally Posted by Phyllo

I have tried that in the past, all though I didn't show her the KIT, you know their pat answer to that. It is that Jesus existed before Abraham but he is not God.

But that's why showing her the KIT is so powerful. Their own English words under the Greek says "I am", and then renders it in the right hand column as "I have been". It's not even close.


I wonder if she could get me one from the WT. I'll have to ask her.

Doubtful. They stop printing it in the 1940's.

They also change the wording(among other changes)in Ex. 3:14.

There are a ton of places where you can see the changes using the KIT. That's why they don't distribute it anymore and they are sought after by apologists who attempt to dialogue with them. It's probably the single most damaging publication against them that they themselves have ever produced. I'm thankful I've kept the 1969 copies that I have and I was blessed to have found a 1985 copy in a library used book store for $1 over 2 years ago.

In the end, it's still very difficult to get through to them, even using their own writings. They don't even know when they've lost the debate. All one can one do at that point is leave it to the Holy Spirit to do His work.

[Pepband Mom]

Phyllo:

I HAVE the purple covered KIT (1969 edition? I'd have to check for sure) AND the blue covered Byington "THE BIBLE in Living English" 1981 printing plus a few other gems. Found at Catholic Thrift stores for a few bucks each.

This discovery surprized me when I leafed through it going first to John 1:1 where it CLEARLY states on page 1365: "and the Word was God." -> Then I looked at the Copyright page noticing this Bible was printed by the WTBTS & was amazed by this gaffe, a 180 degree departure from their heavily promoted New World Translation! I rather think they didn't print many more Living English editions after this 1981 edition. The JW faithful I have chatted with seem aware of the Byington but don't seem to have reviewed an edition at their local kingdom hall; which begs the question: WHY isn't the Byington Living English edition promoted any longer?
After all they went to the trouble to buy the rights to it from Steven Byington mainly because it says Jehovah all over the place.

A rather distressing oversight by those ASLEEP at the top of the Watchtower - no secret they lack an ounce of credibility. The WT PRINTED & PROMOTED these books - probably much to their horror when they finally put 2 & 2 together.

The announcements of the rolling "end of the world" (from 1914 to 1975) awards them FALSE PROPHET status but this blatant SCRIPTURE TWISTING really takes the cake.

[tabycat]

Originally Posted by Phyllo

I have tried that in the past, all though I didn't show her the KIT, you know their pat answer to that. It is that Jesus existed before Abraham but he is not God. .

There is one slight problems with that answer; it is not what God or the Jews know it ment.

[Phyllo]

My KIT is 1985. I am surprised that they allow their members to have the KIT. Don't their members question the difference themselves?

I'll have to look in a used book store then for the other book.

I was able to get my hands on a 1961 NWT but as luck would have it, the verses that I wanted to look the page was missing. I wonder how many other pages might be missing. I do have the latest one though.

[Phyllo]

Originally Posted by Pepband Mom

Phyllo:

I HAVE the purple covered KIT (1969 edition? I'd have to check for sure) AND the blue covered Byington "THE BIBLE in Living English" 1981 printing plus a few other gems. Found at Catholic Thrift stores for a few bucks each.

This discovery surprized me when I leafed through it going first to John 1:1 where it CLEARLY states on page 1365: "and the Word was God." -> Then I looked at the Copyright page noticing this Bible was printed by the WTBTS & was amazed by this gaffe, a 180 degree departure from their heavily promoted New World Translation! I rather think they didn't print many more Living English editions after this 1981 edition. The JW faithful I have chatted with seem aware of the Byington but don't seem to have reviewed an edition at their local kingdom hall; which begs the question: WHY isn't the Byington Living English edition promoted any longer?
After all they went to the trouble to buy the rights to it from Steven Byington mainly because it says Jehovah all over the place.

A rather distressing oversight by those ASLEEP at the top of the Watchtower - no secret they lack an ounce of credibility. The WT PRINTED & PROMOTED these books - probably much to their horror when they finally put 2 & 2 together.

The announcements of the rolling "end of the world" (from 1914 to 1975) awards them FALSE PROPHET status but this blatant SCRIPTURE TWISTING really takes the cake.

I am going to have to make myself a list of the books I hope to get at a church sale or used book shop.

[Phyllo]

Originally Posted by tabycat

There is one slight problems with that answer; it is not what God or the Jews know it ment.

Still it is what that are taught and believe and there is no debating with them. Believe me, I tried.

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by Pepband Mom

Phyllo:

I HAVE the purple covered KIT (1969 edition? I'd have to check for sure) AND the blue covered Byington "THE BIBLE in Living English" 1981 printing plus a few other gems. Found at Catholic Thrift stores for a few bucks each.

This discovery surprized me when I leafed through it going first to John 1:1 where it CLEARLY states on page 1365: "and the Word was God." -> Then I looked at the Copyright page noticing this Bible was printed by the WTBTS & was amazed by this gaffe, a 180 degree departure from their heavily promoted New World Translation! I rather think they didn't print many more Living English editions after this 1981 edition. The JW faithful I have chatted with seem aware of the Byington but don't seem to have reviewed an edition at their local kingdom hall; which begs the question: WHY isn't the Byington Living English edition promoted any longer?
After all they went to the trouble to buy the rights to it from Steven Byington mainly because it says Jehovah all over the place.

A rather distressing oversight by those ASLEEP at the top of the Watchtower - no secret they lack an ounce of credibility. The WT PRINTED & PROMOTED these books - probably much to their horror when they finally put 2 & 2 together.

The announcements of the rolling "end of the world" (from 1914 to 1975) awards them FALSE PROPHET status but this blatant SCRIPTURE TWISTING really takes the cake.

JW's...

[cea1989]

Originally Posted by MrsFlapjack

They have been coming over to my house for nearly 9 months now, and this subject has yet to come up. I think it is one of the last things they bring up since it is so controversial.

First to
W ever writing on this hopefully it's right. Married to a JW they keep a lot of things in the dark till your too into it to pull yourself out. When they come to the doors they talk about basics that most religions agree on (example there one God, he's merciful, there's a heaven etc) it's very sad to know that they ate being taught wrong