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  #1  
Old Jun 12, '12, 12:31 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Is there or can there be a reason Mary's Catholic Doctrines and Dogma'a are NOTclearly expressed in the bible?

What's your opinion?
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  #2  
Old Jun 12, '12, 1:02 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Is there or can there be a reason Mary's Catholic Doctrines and Dogma'a are NOTclearly expressed in the bible?

What's your opinion?
The doctines and dogma's about the Mother of God may not be explicit, but they are contained in the Bible.

The reason we don't see many of them is because we are not Jews living in Israel in the first century. We have no idea what some of the passages in the Bible would have meant to a Jew who had been raised in the context of fifteen centuries of Judaism.

Christians today, by and large, don't recognize the word "Blessed" as a Jew in the first century would have. We are not familiar with how queens were chosen in the Old Testament. There are no debtor's prisons in the western world and so many of the passages in the Bible based on the operation of debtor's prisons pass right by us unnoticed.

The Bible is an ancient Jewish document, and discovering the meaning of much of it requires a basic understanding of Jewish history, culture, and politics. That's why we have to study the scriptures. That's why we need formal Bible study.

But the Marian doctrines and dogmas are in there. Scripture is like a diamond mine. You have to dig, and you have to get dirty, but the rewards are great.


-Tim-
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  #3  
Old Jun 12, '12, 1:54 pm
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COPLAND 3 COPLAND 3 is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Just like any developed Doctrine, such as the Trinity, the belief has always been there, but those beliefs were in development before the Bible canon was defined itself. So being explicit in Scripture is not vital for being a Chrisitan belief, but what is explicit is how the Church has managed to develop an exisiting Doctrine so that it can be fully understood and defined. It all goes back to asking ourselves if our faith is a religion of a book, or is it a WAY that Jesus established 2000 years ago that is handed down to us by Apostolic Tradition and Scripture. An expectation that our belief is limited to the Bible alone is a Protestant error that is in opposition to ancient Christianity.

So for the Marian Doctrine, like the Trinity, i see evidence in Scripture, though not explicit like a Catechism, but from the writings of the Church Fathers i see the belief being there and developed over time.
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  #4  
Old Jun 12, '12, 2:27 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
=TimothyH;9400678]The doctines and dogma's about the Mother of God may not be explicit, but they are contained in the Bible.

The reason we don't see many of them is because we are not Jews living in Israel in the first century. We have no idea what some of the passages in the Bible would have meant to a Jew who had been raised in the context of fifteen centuries of Judaism.

Christians today, by and large, don't recognize the word "Blessed" as a Jew in the first century would have. We are not familiar with how queens were chosen in the Old Testament. There are no debtor's prisons in the western world and so many of the passages in the Bible based on the operation of debtor's prisons pass right by us unnoticed.

The Bible is an ancient Jewish document, and discovering the meaning of much of it requires a basic understanding of Jewish history, culture, and politics. That's why we have to study the scriptures. That's why we need formal Bible study.

But the Marian doctrines and dogmas are in there. Scripture is like a diamond mine. You have to dig, and you have to get dirty, but the rewards are great.


-Tim-
Good job Tim,
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  #5  
Old Jun 12, '12, 3:12 pm
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

The bottom line is, it's not about Mary.

I think she would be the first to tell us this.

It is about her son.

If there is more about Him than could fill volumes, then why should people go to great detail to expound what is already contained therein (as TimothyH explained so well); and what should be (and was) obvious - until haters managed to warp the truth: Jesus was a good Jew who knew the law better than any. He honored his mother and in his dying words on the cross he shared her with us (his beloved disciples - it would have been much shorter and more efficient to say "John", if that were truly the case).

Why on Earth does/should anyone ask for more?
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  #6  
Old Jun 12, '12, 3:51 pm
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Is there or can there be a reason Mary's Catholic Doctrines and Dogma'a are NOTclearly expressed in the bible?

What's your opinion?
The Marian doctrines and dogmas are not explicitly expressed in the Bible because the Bible is not a systematic instruction book in Christianity, as Protestants have tried to make it. Jesus didn't leave us the Bible, He left us the Catholic Church as our teacher. At the end of the fourth century, the Church selected and canonized 27 of her own writings and named them the New Testament and compiled the Bible.

To know Bible history is to cease being a Protestant, to paraphrase John Henry Cardinal Newman.

A little inexpensive book, Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church, should be required reading for all Christians. It's available from Catholic Answers and from Amazon.

Jim Dandy
ex-Protestant
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  #7  
Old Jun 12, '12, 7:44 pm
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MarcoPolo MarcoPolo is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Is there or can there be a reason Mary's Catholic Doctrines and Dogma'a are NOTclearly expressed in the bible?

What's your opinion?
I would say the reason is the same as why there is no list in Scripture of what books constitute Scripture.
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  #8  
Old Jun 12, '12, 9:00 pm
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

"I would say the reason is the same as why there is no list in Scripture of what books constitute Scripture."

You beat me to it.
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  #9  
Old Jun 13, '12, 5:32 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
=Jim Dandy;9401300]The Marian doctrines and dogmas are not explicitly expressed in the Bible because the Bible is not a systematic instruction book in Christianity, as Protestants have tried to make it. Jesus didn't leave us the Bible, He left us the Catholic Church as our teacher. At the end of the fourth century, the Church selected and canonized 27 of her own writings and named them the New Testament and compiled the Bible.

To know Bible history is to cease being a Protestant, to paraphrase John Henry Cardinal Newman.

A little inexpensive book, Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church, should be required reading for all Christians. It's available from Catholic Answers and from Amazon.

Jim Dandy
ex-Protestant
Great post Jim, and I agree with most of what you shared, except for:

"Jesus didn't leave us the Bible" [I DO understand your message but not the words you choose]

2nd. Tim. 3: [16] All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
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  #10  
Old Jun 13, '12, 5:33 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Is there or can there be a reason Mary's

Quote:
=kkollwitz;9402257]"i would say the reason is the same as why there is no list in scripture of what books constitute scripture."

you beat me to it.
good point
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