Excommunication as a Restorative Measure

MarcoPolo · #1 Jun 11, '12, 12:33 pm

Excerpt:There have been a number of difficulties that have arisen in the Church in the United States recently that have prompted both bishops and laity to investigate the possibility of the use of excommunication to seek to restore Church discipline. These have ranged from in-house Church matters like rebellion of parishioners against pastors to revisiting what possible reaction the Church can employ towards politicians who publically and without compunction dissent from Church teaching on matters like same-sex “marriage” or abortion. (BY FATHER BRIAN MULLADY, OP)
Full article at National Catholic Register.

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Hesychios · #2 Jun 11, '12, 12:50 pm

Without having read the article, I'd say it would be appropriate policy. Really hard to implement.

TeeEm · #3 Jun 11, '12, 1:23 pm

This is very thoughtful article on the history of Excommunication within the Church.

Church officials have to tread very carefully if faced with doling out excommunication statements to erring members of the Church as the media often acts as a double edged sword, i.e, condoning instead of rebuking the member on the severity of their offense.

I understand a person in a state of mortal sin with a persistent resolve to continue in spreading doctrinal errors within the Church are liable for excommunication, right?

My questions:
What are the consequences of excommunication in the member's spiritual life?
Is the process (of excommunication) similar as in a court of law? does the erring member have to serve a 'sentence' / 'jail term' as the examples in the article implied? what if the member dies before the ban is lifted?

MarcoPolo · #4 Jun 11, '12, 2:29 pm

I think it is prudent to use caution with public excommunications to make sure the wrong message is not sent. By the same token, not issuing excommunications sends a scandalous message as well. We often seemed worried about offending secularists or dissenters, but not the faithful.

TimothyH · #5 Jun 11, '12, 2:44 pm

We have to be careful that we don't become like the audience at the Roman Coliseum, cheering each time a politician or a celebrity gets excommunicated and demanding that the guy in the next pew get thrown out of the Church next.

-Tim-

TeeEm · #6 Jun 12, '12, 2:09 am

Quote:

We have to be careful that we don't become like the audience at the Roman Coliseum, cheering each time a politician or a celebrity gets excommunicated and demanding that the guy in the next pew get thrown out of the Church next.

We do have present day colosseums - trashy reality shows.

**thistle** · #7 Jun 12, '12, 4:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcoPolo

Excerpt:There have been a number of difficulties that have arisen in the Church in the United States recently that have prompted both bishops and laity to investigate the possibility of the use of excommunication to seek to restore Church discipline. These have ranged from in-house Church matters like rebellion of parishioners against pastors to revisiting what possible reaction the Church can employ towards politicians who publically and without compunction dissent from Church teaching on matters like same-sex “marriage” or abortion. (BY FATHER BRIAN MULLADY, OP)
Full article at National Catholic Register.

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Canon 1373 (which is referred to in the article) does not refer to excommunication. It refers to an interdict or other penalties.

Excommunication is for the following:

Ferendae sententiae (excommunication after formal proceedings):

Canon 1378 The pretended celebration of the Eucharist or of sacramental Confession.
Canon 1388 Violation of the Seal of Confession by an interpreter.

Latae sententiae (automatic excommunication):

Canon 1364 Apostasy, heresy, or schism
Canon 1367 Violation of the Sacred Species
Canon 1370 Laying violent hands on the Pope
Canon 1378 Absolution of an accomplice
Canon 1382 Episcopal consecration without authorisation from the Holy See
Canon 1388 Violation of the Seal of Confession by a Confessor
Canon 1398 Procuring an abortion

MarcoPolo · #8 Jun 12, '12, 1:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

Canon 1373 (which is referred to in the article) does not refer to excommunication.

I think the article acknowledges that.

**Thomas Casey** · #9 Jun 13, '12, 4:31 pm

Bump

**Holly3278** · #10 Jun 17, '12, 12:39 am

Do you all think it would be a good thing if certain dissident and heretical Catholic politicians were excommunicated?

mytruepower2 · #11 Jun 17, '12, 5:24 am

When you think about it, excommunication is nothing -but- a restorative measure, in that it only exists to chasten people, thus restoring them, if possible, to an authentic belief in the truth, or at least, to being humble enough to not challenge the teachings of the church openly.

What we need to be careful of is that solid criteria for the use of excommunication be observed. Otherwise, it won't be long before people start getting excommunicated for being too faithful.

sw85 · #12 Jun 17, '12, 5:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Do you all think it would be a good thing if certain dissident and heretical Catholic politicians were excommunicated?

This is a loaded question.

Obviously it would be good (best, in fact) for those Catholics to repent of their errors and return to full communion with the Church. But if this, for whatever reason, is not going to happen, it might be best that others be shielded from their errors with, for instance, an explicit declaration that they are not in communion with the Church, lest their scandalous actions induce others to sin.

I think Rome is understandably quite nervous about doing this. Excommunication and other forms of canonical penalty are probably not effective when (a) people don't really care about their own souls anymore and (b) those who don't can easily find a treacherous priest to continue (scandalously) ministering to them. The likeliest outcome of rigorous enforcement of such a policy would be provocation of both the offending laity and the aforementioned priests to schism, with resultant loss of parishes and very many more souls.

robwar · #13 Jun 17, '12, 6:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Do you all think it would be a good thing if certain dissident and heretical Catholic politicians were excommunicated?

I think what happens in some cases is that they are asked privately by the bishop not to present themselves for communion. I am not sure if this is ex-communication or not in the "official" sense. It is a tricky thing and not to be taken lightly even if you feel this way.

mytruepower2 · #14 Jun 17, '12, 9:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Do you all think it would be a good thing if certain dissident and heretical Catholic politicians were excommunicated?

If a public figure of any sort lives in open apostasy with the teachings of the Church, and no real action is taken to contradict or discipline him/her, this is the sin of scandal.

That action need not necessarily be excommunication, but I don't agree that private warnings are enough. Remember, it's not just the soul of the politician/celebrity we're thinking about, but the souls of those who are scandalized by the local church's apparent endorsement of his/her evil deeds.