Spread of 'baby boxes' in Europe alarms United Nations

[didymus]

The Guardian:
Spread of 'baby boxes' in Europe alarms United Nations
UN says hatches in which unwanted newborn babies can be left contravene children's rights to know and be cared for by parents

The United Nations is increasingly concerned at the spread in Europe of "baby boxes" where infants can be secretly abandoned by parents, warning that the practice "contravenes the right of the child to be known and cared for by his or her parents", the Guardian has learned.

The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which reports on how well governments respect and protect children's human rights, is alarmed at the prevalence of the hatches – usually outside a hospital – which allow unwanted newborns to be left in boxes with an alarm or bell to summon a carer.
The committee, a group of 18 international human rights experts based in Geneva, says that while "foundling wheels" and baby hatches had disappeared from Europe in the last century, almost 200 have been installed across the continent in the past decade in nations as diverse as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Poland, Czech Republic and Latvia. Since 2000, more than 400 children have been abandoned in the hatches, with faith groups and right-wing politicians spearheading the revival in the controversial practice.

Their proponents draw on the language of the pro-life lobby and claim the baby boxes "protect a child's right to life" and have saved "hundreds of newborns". There are differing opinions on this key social issue across Europe. In France and Holland women have the right to remain anonymous to their babies after giving birth, while in the UK it remains a crime to secretly abandon a child.
However UN officials argue that baby hatches violate key parts of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) which says children must be able to identify their parents and even if separated from them the state has a "duty to respect the child's right to maintain personal relations with his or her parent".

In an interview with the Guardian, Maria Herczog, a member of the UNCRC committee, said that the arguments from critics were a throwback to the past. "Just like medieval times in many countries we see people claiming that baby boxes prevent infanticide … there is no evidence for this."

[sigh]
What can one say?
They sure didn't spare any buzzwords; "faith groups", "right-wing politicians", "controversial practice", "medieval".
Odd that a child who has no right to life has a right to know his/her parents.
And of course, the solution is better sex ed and contraception. Now excuse me while I go bang my head on a wall.

[Nine_Two]

While it would be nice if children could know their parents, it is certainly better than the alternative.

We allow abortions without question, why can't we allow adoption without question?

[Trishie]

Originally Posted by Nine_Two

While it would be nice if children could know their parents, it is certainly better than the alternative.

[Dale_M]

Originally Posted by didymus

Odd that a child who has no right to life has a right to know his/her parents.

Hm? I think infanticide is illegal in the UK, and throughout Europe. The same is probably true for the entire world, although I am not sure.

The news article quotes Maria Herczog, a member of the UNCRC committee and prominent child psychologist, as saying that there is no evidence that baby hatches (baby wheels, baby boxes, safe haven laws etc) reduce infanticide. Does anyone know of statistics which counter her argument?

[Holly3278]

I would much rather that the "baby boxes" remain. I truly believe that women are a lot less likely to murder their child if they know they can secretly give their child up.

[Santi2]

"Just like medieval times in many countries we see people claiming that baby boxes prevent infanticide … there is no evidence for this."

An infant left at the hatch is sufficient evidence that infanticide was prevented.
Members of the UNCRC must be blind. Or, incompetent.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by Santi2

An infant left at the hatch is sufficient evidence that infanticide was prevented.

Or sufficient evidence that there's a lack of support for women in extreme situations. The observation that babies are frequently being dumped by men or relatives has a rather ominous ring to me.

The UK and France (where women can give birth anonymously in hospital) don't have 'baby boxes', are rates of infanticide higher than in Germany or Austria?

[Santi2]

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

Or sufficient evidence that there's a lack of support for women in extreme situations.

"extreme situations" is defined by pro-life as the choice women make over life or death of the unborn child, Kaninchen. Our main concerns on unplanned pregnancy focus on keeping the child (and we offer practical support when they do) or, give up the child for adoption. In my experience, all have kept and raised the child.

The observation that babies are frequently being dumped by men or relatives has a rather ominous ring to me.

It is not just the babies that are being dumped. In all cases, mothers are as well. It is a rare case when fathers come to us to ask for help when the mother contemplates abortion. A sad reality is the lack of an extended family unit to support the mothers. We have pro-life members who have become extended family to many of these women.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by Santi2

"extreme situations" is defined by pro-life as the choice women make over life or death of the unborn child, Kaninchen. Our main concerns on unplanned pregnancy focus on keeping the child (and we offer practical support when they do) or, give up the child for adoption. In my experience, all have kept and raised the child.

I can understand why you may think that dumping the child in a baby box is a better alternative than abortion and I wouldn't disagree other than I think we're talking about different issues here - born children as opposed to unborn children.

I doubt that the situation arises because the women involved are thinking, "I'll have the baby rather than have an abortion because I can solve the problem by just dumping it in a baby box when I've had it." These are women who've decided, for whatever reason (including pretending nothing's happening), to have their babies - very likely with no medical input during pregnancy and labour (otherwise the mother would be easy to trace) - and then dump them or somebody else does.

So, are baby boxes better than infanticide? Well, yes, but I'd think that, for example, the French solution where pregnancy and labour can be 'anonymous' would be better.

[aicirt]

Originally Posted by Nine_Two

While it would be nice if children could know their parents, it is certainly better than the alternative.

We allow abortions without question, why can't we allow adoption without question?

Don't know about Europe, but here in the US, if a Mom puts her child up for adoption, the child could linger in foster care until the state can find the father and get his permission to put the child up for adoption. If he is found, he may opt not to. The child stays in foster care. Opting not to doesn't mean he gets his act together and supports the child. It just means the child is his and he doesn't want it put up for adoption. And it is an extensive search. By the time they find one of the men who could be the father, baby is no longer a baby.

[aicirt]

Originally Posted by Dale_M

Hm? I think infanticide is illegal in the UK, and throughout Europe. The same is probably true for the entire world, although I am not sure.

The news article quotes Maria Herczog, a member of the UNCRC committee and prominent child psychologist, as saying that there is no evidence that baby hatches (baby wheels, baby boxes, safe haven laws etc) reduce infanticide. Does anyone know of statistics which counter her argument?

How can you prove a negative in this case? If x number of children are found in these boxes, it means that number didn't succumb to a worse fate. Who knows how many have been successfully murdered, and disposed in the ocean or buried in the woods. At least one knows when the child is left in a box outside of a facility someone will find it a lot quicker and it will be taken care of quicker.

[aicirt]

Originally Posted by Santi2

"extreme situations" is defined by pro-life as the choice women make over life or death of the unborn child, Kaninchen. Our main concerns on unplanned pregnancy focus on keeping the child (and we offer practical support when they do) or, give up the child for adoption. In my experience, all have kept and raised the child.



It is not just the babies that are being dumped. In all cases, mothers are as well. It is a rare case when fathers come to us to ask for help when the mother contemplates abortion. A sad reality is the lack of an extended family unit to support the mothers. We have pro-life members who have become extended family to many of these women.

How would the father know where to go? It is all about the mother's right to abort. She doesn't need his permission. It is her body, not his body, so as long as baby is in the womb, it's hers.

[SamH]

Originally Posted by Dale_M

Hm? I think infanticide is illegal in the UK, and throughout Europe. The same is probably true for the entire world, although I am not sure.

I am guessing you are not familar with abortion?

[St Francis]

So the woman has the "right" to kill her unborn child, but not to remain anonymous to that child?

She alone has the "right" to kill her unborn child, but not to put the baby up for adoption alone after he or she is born?

What convolutions these people put themselves through!

[St Francis]

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

Or sufficient evidence that there's a lack of support for women in extreme situations. The observation that babies are frequently being dumped by men or relatives has a rather ominous ring to me....

We are continually being told in the US that we have to emulate Europe with their socialist democracy because the reason women have abortions is they don't have enough money.

This is Europe! I guess that cradle-to-grave government aid isn't really enough!