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  #16  
Old Jun 12, '12, 10:35 pm
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

North Dakota Voters Reject Measure to Abolish Property Taxes

Quote:
North Dakota voters on Tuesday soundly rejected a ballot measure that sought to make the oil-rich state the first to abolish property taxes, a move critics said would have undermined local governments and forced an increase in taxes overall.

The measure, which would have required state lawmakers to come up with a way to replace $812 million in lost property tax revenues for 2012 alone, was defeated by a vote of 77.5 percent to 22.5 percent, with 70 percent of precincts reporting.

A varied coalition organized opposition to the measure, including the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce, which said it was looking for "broad based" reform of personal income, corporate and sales taxes as well as property taxes
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47790578
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  #17  
Old Jun 13, '12, 7:12 am
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

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Originally Posted by Dale_M View Post
North Dakota Voters Reject Measure to Abolish Property Taxes

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47790578
What are these voters thinking anyway? That their incomes will be forever? Aren't they aware that inability to pay the taxes is one of the prime factors of foreclosures and dropping property values, including their own?

Or is everyone expecting a government pension in the six figures that depends on future taxes? Now what makes them think that? Seems as if there is some moral hazard here somewhere as much as Measure 3.
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  #18  
Old Jun 13, '12, 9:52 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

Planned Parenthood Defeats North Dakota Religious Liberty Measure
Quote:
Thanks to an onslaught of spending in North Dakota by Planned Parenthood and other top abortion backers that distorted it, voters on Tuesday rejected a measure that protects religious freedom.

Measure 3 was meant to safeguard religious freedoms without interfering the legitimate needs of government to protect its citizens. With the attacks on religious liberties posed by Obamacare and its recent HHS mandate forcing religious groups to fund birth control or drugs that may cause abortions for their employees, states are pushing back with legislation and ballot proposals to protect their rights.

However, the Planned Parenthood abortion business spent heavily, as did NARAL and the ACLU, to oppose the measure.

Tom Freier, executive director of the North Dakota Family Alliance Action, lamented the defeat of the amendment, but said pro-life advocates will continue the fight to protect those who don’t want to be financially complicit in paying for abortions or birth control.

“There is a significant difference between accepting the failed vote on Measure 3 and understanding the necessity to continue efforts to restore our religious freedoms as found in the Religious Liberty Restoration Amendment,” Freier said. “We fully respect the actions of the North Dakota voters as expressed in the democratic process of the June 12th election-as it relates to Measure 3. Measure 3 is a political entity, it was defeated, it is done.”

“No matter what our thoughts about the $1 million out of state, Planned Parenthood, war chest used to influence the vote, the vote was taken, it is over. From it, we will learn,” Freier continued. “The Religious Liberty Restoration Amendment is much more than a piece of legislation. It is a cause based on principle. It is a standard enshrined in the First Amendment and reiterated in our own North Dakota constitution-to protect the exercise of our religious freedom. It has been eroded and in many cases attacked. And the purpose of the RLRA was simply to restore that level of protection whereby a person’s religious beliefs would not be infringed upon without a compelling reason.”

Freier said, “The foundational principles found in the Religious Liberty Restoration Amendment are true and the people of North Dakota should benefit from the protections they afford. That is why we will continue to work to restore and preserve our religious freedom.”

“Our religious liberty is a treasured freedom which we have enjoyed for over 200 years. It was in that spirit, less than 2 years ago more than 28,000 North Dakotans signed the petition to place the RLRA on the ballot,” he concluded. “Many, including measure sponsors, petition circulators, volunteers, and supporters have given so much to the effort. Thank you.”

Meanwhile, Sarah Stoesz, the head of the Planned Parenthood abortion business that covers North Dakota and Minnesota, cheered the defeat of Measure 3.

“North Dakotans — with a strong and clear NO vote — affirmed that religious liberty is securely protected in the U.S. Constitution,” she said. “Measure Three was divisive, unnecessary and could have had dangerous consequences.”

Christopher Dodson, who heads the North Dakota Catholic Conference, also blasted Planned Parenthood for pouring a “massive amount of out-of-state money” into the campaign to defeat Measure 3.

“Religious freedom is a fundamental human right,” it said. “As such, we must be ever-vigilant to ensure that this precious right is always protected and respected. The outcome of the vote on Measure 3 will not distract us from that task.”

The statement also stated that the “massive amount of out-of-state money Planned Parenthood poured into the opposition campaign confirms that religious freedom in North Dakota is not safe and that there are well-organized and well-funded groups ready to take advantage of that situation.”

More reason Planned Parenthood has to be defunded.
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  #19  
Old Jun 13, '12, 7:44 pm
timotheos timotheos is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

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Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
What are these voters thinking anyway?
We North Dakotans do not believe there is a free lunch, and that regardless of promises, taxes will not be abolished, they will eventually be returned and levied -- from farther away, and services will be apportioned -- from farther away.

Prime reason why this is not good: the lion's share of my tax dollars go to Washington, and the local return on my tax dollar is like a fine cuban cigar returned as a cigarette butt.

Services should be provided locally, they should be paid for locally, and if someone does not perform adequately in their elected position, they should be removed locally, where we can stare them straight in the eyes.
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  #20  
Old Jun 13, '12, 8:50 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

Tim, do understand I have this same conversation with my neighbors any time a referendum is put up for vote. They almost always pass it by a narrow margin, then complain when they actually see a big increase on their property tax bill two years down the road when they find themselves looking for work. Whether local or federal, it still seems criminal to have to pay for pensions and health benefits for former state workers while you can't afford them for yourself. What do they do for you? Just saying.

Nothing against North Dakotaons per se. Just hoping we could use you guys as an example of making things work without property taxes. Seems like home owners do enough for the economy but maybe not enough.

Last edited by ProVobis; Jun 13, '12 at 9:03 pm.
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  #21  
Old Jun 15, '12, 5:31 pm
timotheos timotheos is offline
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Default Re: War on religion? North Dakota Measure 3 aims to strike back

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Tim, do understand I have this same conversation with my neighbors any time a referendum is put up for vote. They almost always pass it by a narrow margin, then complain when they actually see a big increase on their property tax bill two years down the road when they find themselves looking for work. Whether local or federal, it still seems criminal to have to pay for pensions and health benefits for former state workers while you can't afford them for yourself. What do they do for you? Just saying.

Nothing against North Dakotaons per se. Just hoping we could use you guys as an example of making things work without property taxes. Seems like home owners do enough for the economy but maybe not enough.
OK, I do get your point. But as for now, our property taxes pay for local government services and education; my fear is that by abolishing property tax as the revenue basis and shifting to the state, then all of out local government and school employees essentially become state workers, and all money-related decisions on local governance and building get made in a city 250 miles away. And when the oil tax revenues "disappear", guess who will get to make up the difference?

Yes, a lot of taxation is excessive and occurs without my consent. I too would like to see government worker benefits tied to some form of private sector index so it no longer is a one-way gravy train. But I would like to think I have a bit more influence on the process if it remains in my backyard.
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