Do Not Turn Into a Fight - 10 Reasons to Love the EF - Page 11

choliks · #**151** Jun 13, '12, 6:16 pm

It also depends on what kind of guitar. An electric guitar played at Mass really makes me cringe. On the other hand, a well played classical guitar (the nylon stringed...not the steel-stringed folk guitar) makes the Masses in our side of the world very reverent. It's a good thing the electric guitar will always be the last choice.

Add to that the songs that were written. Most of the hymns here in the Philippines were written with the Mass settings in mind.

Since most of the parishes in our country are not well off, full scale pipe organs are very few and far between. Most notable of which is the Bamboo Organ. So we use what is accessible: a portable keyboard or a classical guitar.

But for us, the real hero in liturgical music is the choir. No solo acts please.

Rich C · #**152** Jun 15, '12, 6:34 am

I also love the way the priest does a lot of things first, alone. Then when he's done, the server/laity have our turn. It really hits home to me how special and indispensible the priest is.

**catharina** · #**153** Jun 15, '12, 7:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

I'll start: Number 1 reason to love the EF:

If it suits your personality, spirituality or aesthetic predilections.

When someone gives this reason how can anyone deny their honesty?

So very true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewanderer

Anybody else on this site who likes th EF? I know there are more of you than just
this!

This is your chance to tell us all why you like it. You're opportunity to help others see the beauty that you do in this form of the Mass. Feel free to step in and let us know!

I love both forms of the Holy Mass. Why not?
Only the Latin Mass existed until my young-adult years
so the EF remains quite familiar and comforting to me.

RogerDeCourcy · #**154** Jun 15, '12, 1:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

All this is your opinion and it is one I do not agree with.

I have been to many Masses where a guitar was the only instrument used. All of them were beautiful and reverent so your "in practice" comment is off in my experience.

I have never seen a "polka" mass.

I also noted that you failed to respond to the culture issue.

It's not mere opinion. If no standard is set in music, then what you'll hear is whatever the locals can muster. This is fine for local theatre. It's not fine for a sacred rite, unless the rite is also local. The Catholic Mass is no mere local ceremony. The laity have a right to a a Mass said according to the mind of the Church, not what local liturgists favour.

There are polka Masses on Youtube.

When I hear the word culture, I reach for my shotgun. 'Culture' is what the locals make up. If they're ex-colonials, it's fairly recent. It's a useful vector for creative liturgists to add banality to the rite. The odds that local liturgists are great artists is small.

The Mass is supposed to point to something eternal. The current trend to chase after popular taste works against this.

RogerDeCourcy · #**155** Jun 15, '12, 2:20 pm

I do not expect people in a third world country to pay £100K for a pipe organ. But even then, modern synths do a fair approximation, if you don't just buy something off the shelf.

What I do object to is a Western, 100 year-old parish leaving a pipe organ to gather dust while a guitarist plays modern hymns, badly. I also object to African or Phillipino stylings used to excuse English or US cheesy music. We can do better.

choliks · #**156** Jun 16, '12, 1:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

I do not expect people in a third world country to pay £100K for a pipe organ. But even then, modern synths do a fair approximation, if you don't just buy something off the shelf.

What I do object to is a Western, 100 year-old parish leaving a pipe organ to gather dust while a guitarist plays modern hymns, badly. I also object to African or Phillipino stylings used to excuse English or US cheesy music. We can do better.

I agree. That's why we have our own. In our diocese, our bishop has required that the psalms be chanted or sung. The chanting style was the one used in the age-old Filipino tradition of retelling the Passion.

triumphguy · #**157** Jun 17, '12, 10:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

I do not expect people in a third world country to pay £100K for a pipe organ. But even then, modern synths do a fair approximation, if you don't just buy something off the shelf.

What I do object to is a Western, 100 year-old parish leaving a pipe organ to gather dust while a guitarist plays modern hymns, badly. I also object to African or Phillipino stylings used to excuse English or US cheesy music. We can do better.

And most parishes in Canada are far far younger than that.

thewanderer · #**158** Jun 19, '12, 9:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Curt Jester

I believe he means that each priest does not try to inject his own personality into the Mass. Assuming that's the meaning, I agree. To use a musical analogy, you can hear pianists all play the same piece, and they will all "make the piece their own". A priest should not be trying to make the Mass his own.

In regard to the sermon/homily, it's pretty clear that his personality will come across. He would have to put on an act to do otherwise. In this regard, yes, it's fine, as long as he's not trying to be a showman and make it about himself.

I'm still really curious as to whether people see this as intrinsic to the EF or just something that priests in the EF make more of an effort to portray?

To be honest... this hasn't been my experience with the EF Masses that I have attended, at least, if I am understanding what you mean by this. The accent of the priest, how fast he speaks, the character of his movements, slow and statly, smoothly,jerky, quick and precise, all show aspects of the priests personality both in the EF and OF.

So just for clarification,
1. Are these the sorts of things you are talking about?
2. Do you see this as intrinsic to the EF? or just something that more often is found in the EF?

anp1215 · #**159** Jun 19, '12, 10:35 am

I've only attended a Low EF Mass, but I think the thing I liked most about it was kneeling on the prie-deu to receive Communion. Of course, kneeling isn't limited to the EF. I also loved how quiet and peaceful it was. There were only seven or eight of us at this Mass, I believe. I also love the veils. I have two but I don't wear them to my parish (OF) because I don't like to draw attention to myself.

Jane of Arc · #**160** Jun 26, '12, 1:29 pm

For all of the reasons given in the first post, PLUS:

The Sacred Silence that allows us to listen for God's words & to just gaze upon the Cross/ the Tabernacle....to adore Him.

The Prayers at the "Foot of the Altar", prayers that beseech God to make us worthy to celebrate the Mass that is about to happen "Send forth thy light & thy truth; they have conducted me & brought me unto Thy holy hill & into Thy Tabernacles"

I love the Roman Canon in which we are gathered together with the Communion of the Saints in heaven..

The last gospel of John is a must for me:" All things were made by Him & without Him was made nothing that was made.Within Him was life, & the life was the light of men, &
the light shineth in the dark, & the darkness knew Him not."

I'm drawn to the fact that almost everyone stays after Mass for "Thank You for the Mass", prayers. Lord; help me use the grace I received to live a better life & help me to share Your blessing with others".

PLus,
The Lord's Prayer
Hail Mary
the Memorare
etc.

clem456 · #**161** Jun 26, '12, 2:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

It's not mere opinion. If no standard is set in music, then what you'll hear is whatever the locals can muster. This is fine for local theatre. It's not fine for a sacred rite, unless the rite is also local. The Catholic Mass is no mere local ceremony. The laity have a right to a a Mass said according to the mind of the Church, not what local liturgists favour.

There are polka Masses on Youtube.

When I hear the word culture, I reach for my shotgun. 'Culture' is what the locals make up. If they're ex-colonials, it's fairly recent. It's a useful vector for creative liturgists to add banality to the rite. The odds that local liturgists are great artists is small.

The Mass is supposed to point to something eternal. The current trend to chase after popular taste works against this.

You are really really out of line here.
One of the most offensive posts I've seen on this site.
You completely misunderstand "culture" and it's value to the Church and the various peoples that make it up.
Your post also misunderstands liturgy, who decides how it will be conducted, and what the substance of sacred is...

Rich C · #**162** Jun 26, '12, 2:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane of Arc

The last gospel of John is a must for me:" All things were made by Him & without Him was made nothing that was made.Within Him was life, & the life was the light of men, &
the light shineth in the dark, & the darkness knew Him not."

I agree. Hearing the priest read the beginning of the Gospel of John at the end of every Mass is such a great epilogue, if you will, that brings the whole act together by summarizing it with inspired words. And when we all kneel as he says "verbum caro factum est" I can't help but think of the Blessed Sacrament we just received. It's great.

27lw · #**163** Sep 22, '12, 8:05 pm

I agree with most everyone else's posts, also:

1. I like not having to worry about helping my children to blow noses, etc. then shaking hands with others at Sign of Peace. I know people behind me think I am unhygienic - - yet it is awkward not to shake hands. I simply don't have to worry about that at EF.

2. Not having to sit through the agony of offensive music, that I have observed sometimes at OF.

3. The joy of getting to kneel to receive, and not feeling like I have to bow, say amen, choose whether or not to receive in the hand, receive, decide whether to receive from the chalice, etc. all while shuffling along.

4. The beautiful reverent silence.

marcvsthebard · #**164** Sep 23, '12, 4:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

The Mass is supposed to point to something eternal. The current trend to chase after popular taste works against this.

Indeed. This reflects my experience of the OF from the 1970s through the 1990s. Once I discovered the EF, I never looked back.

Melchior_ · #**165** Sep 23, '12, 4:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerDeCourcy

I do not expect people in a third world country to pay £100K for a pipe organ. But even then, modern synths do a fair approximation, if you don't just buy something off the shelf.

What I do object to is a Western, 100 year-old parish leaving a pipe organ to gather dust while a guitarist plays modern hymns, badly. I also object to African or Phillipino stylings used to excuse English or US cheesy music. We can do better.

Because guitarists who play at Mass are terrible, right?

Like triumphguy said, most Canadian parishes are much more than less than 100 years old. Which sort of goes back to your hated word; "culture".

North America is not a euro-centric culture anymore. As St. Kolbe learned while in Japan, sometimes European Catholicism doesn't work and you need to change things up a bit. Not the doctrine mind you, but the approach.