US: Immunity offered to certain immigrants - Page 9

**rlg94086** · #**121** Jun 15, '12, 4:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMatt25

He did today and I for one

the President of the United States for it. But Robert, we've been over this before. Democrats are a huge tent and 60 for a short time in the US Senate do not necessarily walk in lock step on every single issue. For that matter 2 who have caucused with them, Lieberman and Senator Sanders, I don't even believe refer to themselves as Democrats but call themselves Independents, if I'm not mistaken.

He did, but not really. He didn't change anything.

As far as the "big tent," "not necessarily walk in lock step" comments, for some reason, liberals always reject that argument when the Republicans fail at getting something through.

Bottom line...Obama didn't get it done. He didn't even propose any immigration reform those first 2 years.

**estesbob** · #**122** Jun 15, '12, 4:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlg94086

He did, but not really. He didn't change anything.

As far as the "big tent," "not necessarily walk in lock step" comments, for some reason, liberals always reject that argument when the Republicans fail at getting something through.

Bottom line...Obama didn't get it done. He didn't even propose any immigration reform those first 2 years.

The effect of this announcement will be very, very minor. Illegal immigrants are very careful to stray under the radar. Does anybody really believe large numbers of them they are going to sign up for a card that expires in two years and could overturned by a new President jan 20, 2013?

As far as the Democrat party being a big tent tell that to Bob Casey , Sr.

seekerz · #**123** Jun 15, '12, 4:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by estesbob

The effect of this announcement will be very, very minor. Illegal immigrants are very careful to stray under the radar. Does anybody really believe large numbers of them they are going to sign up for a card that expires in two years and could overturned by a new President jan 20, 2013?

As far as the Democrat party being a big tent tell that to Bob Casey , Sr.

Immigrants are not a homogeneous group. There is a 'coming out' movement among the youth, so I would not be surprised to see more of them coming out of the shadows. A green care also has an expiry date and there are people who would give and arm and a leg for one.

Michael Mayo · #**124** Jun 15, '12, 4:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEddie

Because parents would get kicked out while their adult children stayed in.

ICXC NIKA

But the adult children at least have the option to return with their parents or stay in.

4Squarebaby · #**125** Jun 15, '12, 6:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by estesbob

The effect of this announcement will be very, very minor. Illegal immigrants are very careful to stray under the radar. Does anybody really believe large numbers of them they are going to sign up for a card that expires in two years and could overturned by a new President jan 20, 2013?

I would think so, from Reagan's administration to today it is not like we have Immigration and Border Agents at high school graduations where people proudly declare themselves as illegal and demanding the dream act. If a kid is not arrested as a gang member or for drugs and his county actively notifies the federal government does he really fear deportation?

With the temporary work permit he can get a social security card and a real state ID card From there he can actually take that high school diploma and/or college degree and get a job, even after the two years are up he doesn't have to present an INS card to work, just a social security card and ID card

dixieagle · #**126** Jun 15, '12, 7:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe 5859

You know, when you state it that way, it makes more sense. Obama is basically just stating the level of prioritization.

It makes me wonder if -- in practice -- this has been what they've been doing anyway.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It makes sense to me that Homeland Security has likely been concentrating more on the criminal element involved with guns and drugs than kids who are in school or have served in the military...as well the agency should have been. The difference is that these young people will be able to apply for a "deferment" from deportation every two years, and for work permits.

I believe that this is a calculated pre-emptive political move; with the timing, it would be hard to be otherwise. It will likely cause Mitt Romney to enunciate an immigration policy that seems less hostile to Hispanics than what has often been heard by Republicans. He has already spoken out in response to the executive order:

"I believe the status of young people who came here through no fault of their own is an important matter to be considered and resolved on a long term basis so that they know what their future will be in this country," Romney said. "I think the actions the president took today make it more difficult to reach a long term solution because an executive order is, of course, just a short term matter than can be reversed by subsequent presidents."

Romney, who spoke to reporters for just over a minute, said he "agrees" with Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who has called for a "long-term solution," and vowed, if elected, to offer "clarity" to immigrants who came here through "no fault of their own" but by their parents' action. http://tinyurl.com/7h5y448

I believe that our immigration policy is a mess, much in need of an overhaul. Selective enforcement is nothing new; it was the order of the day for decades, with hard-working farm workers allowed into the country, while border agents looked the other way, so that they could work at low wages harvesting crops for American farmers. I'm with the US bishops in their support of the Dream Act and feel that legislation is ultimately the way to go. As much as I disagree with Obama on most issues, I can't get worked up about giving some hope to decent, productive young people, here through no fault of their own, who simply want to be good residents, and perhaps ultimately citizens, of this big country which is populated by the descendants of immigrants.

P.S. The OPs thread title is inaccurate and misleading; the original headline reads "New Obama policy will spare some from deportation".

anp1215 · #**127** Jun 15, '12, 9:47 pm

So happy to hear about this. A good friend of mine almost had tears in her eyes today as she expressed the joy she feels now that she can finish her college degree. I'm so happy for her and the other immigrants affected by this.

anp1215 · #**128** Jun 15, '12, 9:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady

Really. So you hold against children what their parents did when they were infants and they had no control over?

Yeah. This is one of the most depressing threads I've ever seen.

meltzerboy · #**129** Jun 15, '12, 10:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarisaJean

Finally some good news!! What a relief for many young people

So happy for them and their families....God bless

I think it's a good compromise measure. Let's not be naive, though; it's also a political ploy by Obama in an election year. And Romney, who had been very strict about obeying the law and who called for deportation during the primary debates, is so far neither supporting nor rejecting this, not wanting to antagonize his conservative base, or the Latino electorate any further than he already has.

**rlg94086** · #**130** Jun 15, '12, 10:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

I think it's a good compromise measure. Let's not be naive, though; it's also a political ploy by Obama in an election year. And Romney, who had been very strict about obeying the law and who called for deportation during the primary debates, is so far neither supporting nor rejecting this, not wanting to antagonize his conservative base, or the Latino electorate any further than he already has.

Yep. I was disappointed that Romney took such a hard line approach during the primaries. I think he felt he had to. Gingrich's stance was much better. Oh well. At least he isn't doubling down, now that the general election season is in full force.

_Abyssinia · #**131** Jun 16, '12, 1:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlg94086

Yep. Democrats like to pretend they are united on immigration, but it is not the case. How do you think independents feel about immigration reform?

Poll done in 2010 found immigration reform had strong support from Democrats and Republicans, I am not sure how reliable the poll is though because the percentages seem very high:

http://americasvoiceonline.org/polls...gration_reform

Things like mandatory E-verify, which would lead to a lo of illegal immigrants o self deport because there will likely not be enough jobs, which Romney supports has huge support among Independents, and Democrats as well as Republicans. Pulse Opinion Research found 78% of Likely Voters support mandatory E verify system. 94% of Republicans support it, 84% of Independents, 81% of Democrats. 81% of Black Americans support E verify, 76% of other minorities, including Asians and Hispanics:

E verify helps minorities

Romney said in a CNN debate:

'I think you see a model in Arizona. They passed a law here that says -- that says that people who come here and try and find work, that the employer is required to look them up on e- verify. This e-verify system allows employers in Arizona to know who's here legally and who's not here legally. And as a result of e-verify being put in place, the number of people in Arizona that are here illegally has dropped by some 14 percent, where the national average has only gone down 7 percent.

So going back to the question that was asked, the right course for America is to drop these lawsuits against Arizona and other states that are trying to do the job Barack Obama isn't doing. And I will drop those lawsuits on day one. I'll also complete the fence. I'll make sure we have enough border patrol agents to secure the fence.

And I will make sure we have an E-Verify system and require employers to check the documents of workers, and to check E- Verify. And if an employer hires someone that has not gone through E- Verify, they're going to get sanctioned just like they do for not paying their taxes. You do that, and just as Arizona is finding out, you can stop illegal immigration. It's time we finally did it.'

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...rant-activists

I would like to see immigration reform. I think the system is broken, I think there is more incentive and is somewhat easier to become an illegal immigrant than a legal one because the visa system is so restrictive. I think the visa stem probably needs to be simplified and made easier for people who want to get a visa to work in US.

_Abyssinia · #**132** Jun 16, '12, 1:58 am

Romney Sides with Rubio on Obama’s Immigration Action

Quote:

Mitt Romney criticized President Obama’s decision to give legal status to young adult illegal immigrants today, saying that the executive action had made it “more difficult” to bring about a “long-term solution.”

“I believe the status of young people who come here through no fault of their own is an important matter to be considered and should be solved on a long-term basis, so they know what their future would be in this country,” Romney said. “I think the action that the president took today makes it more difficult to reach that long-term solution because an executive order is, of course, just a short-term matter – it can be reversed by subsequent presidents.”

“I’d like to see legislation that deals with this issue, and I happen to agree with Marco Rubio as he looked at this issue,” he added. “He said that this is an important matter, that we have to find a long-term solution, but that the president’s action makes reaching a long-term solution more difficult. If I’m president, we’ll do our very best to have that kind of long-term solution that provides certainty and clarity for the people who come into this country through no fault of their own by virtue of the action of their parents.”

During the primary, Romney came off as quite hawkish on illegal immigration. Rubio, however, has been working for months on a new DREAM Act that would give those who were brought here illegally as a children legal status in the United States. Romney’s comments suggest that while he won’t support Obama’s method of bringing about legal status for young adults, he may be open to passing either Rubio’s DREAM or some similar bill.

UPDATE: It’s worth noting that, according to a couple of reporters, Romney was asked if he would reverse Obama’s order if he was elected — and didn’t respond.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...katrina-trinko

Mark Krikorian of National Review is criticising Romney's response.

Tigg · #**133** Jun 16, '12, 7:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExCatholicGuy

Now he just has to figure out how to give them voting rights by November!

In the last election you didn't even have to be alive to vote for Obama and with all the so-called "social justice" groups advocating voter privileges for non-Americans - well, there you have it. This just might be the guarantee of a victory for him, now.

Tigg · #**134** Jun 16, '12, 7:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Unless I missed an earlier one I see it took over a full 60 posts this time before a non abortion thread (this one on immigration) turned to abortion.

Ya, CMatt - those ole Catholics just never change.....why can't they harp on something other than the primacy of life issues????

seekerz · #**135** Jun 16, '12, 8:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

I would like to see immigration reform. I think the system is broken, I think there is more incentive and is somewhat easier to become an illegal immigrant than a legal one because the visa system is so restrictive. I think the visa stem probably needs to be simplified and made easier for people who want to get a visa to work in US.

That, is the whole crux of the issue. It's not that immigrants set out to deliberately break the law (criminals aside of course), it's simply that for most people with a basic education whose parents are not in the US, there simply is no legal way to come here to work - and even studying is no cakewalk either.

The question of their taking US jobs is not a simply equation either, because for someone without their GED (or its equivalent), low wage jobs which might leave a US family still needing assistance can support a family back home quite comfortably. Maybe I'm wrong, but allowing such people to come intermittently (the way some farm programs do) based on the needs of the labor market, while remaining settled in their home countries, seems like a better alternative to having millions living in the shadows separated from their loved ones for years on end.