Is It Wrong to Express Frustration at, or Disappointment In, a Saint??

[Jaypeeto4]

Thanks, Robertanthony, for that very kind act and for the fast.
That is very much appreciated.

After typing that last very frustrated message,
I laid down and collapsed into sleep from total and complete
physical and emotional exhaustion.

I just woke up a few minutes ago. I left EWTN on, on tv, when I fell asleep.
They were broadcasting the "International Eucharistic Congress," I think.
They say that listening to stuff, even when asleep, can "feed" the subconscious mind,
so whatever was on EWTN in the hours that I was asleep, may have done my head some good, I don't know.

All I know is, at the church, sitting there waiting, the questions and worries and frustrations became a river of thoughts so blasphemous and raging that I just sat there with my head down in the palms of my hands throughout the mass. I couldn't even stand for the "standing" prayers. Just kept my head down in my hands. Everything flooded my mind. Nonstop. Had I gotten up from there, in that state, whipped out my (blessed
Padre Pio relic-)Rosary and recited the Chaplet of Divine Mercy in that condition, it would have been, I feel, a complete and hypocritical mockery. So I left. And in the car back home with friends, without going into detail about the blasphemous thoughts, I let my friends know that I was through pretending. One of them, who suffers from schizophrenia, partly because of being screwed over royally, mentally, by the teachings when younger of the Jehovah's Witnesses (which screwed my life up too, 100%, which I cannot get back nor make up for lost time or damaged mind, emotions and faith from this garbage. For that and other reasons, I also suffer from severe mental problems which require heavy medication, most of which, thanks to this darned poverty, I can no longer afford nor get any assistance to obtain), anyway, he didn't become defensive or throw pat answers about pain here but pie-in-the-sky at me. My other friend, a pious woman, kept shouting to have faith, etc. That's like telling a quadriplegic to get up and walk, unless of course you yourself are Jesus Christ and can impart that ability to him.

I appreciate the chaplet for me, that again, is extremely kind of you.
I may even offer one myself at 3 a.m. tonight.
I don't want blasphemous, frustrated, angry thoughts. I want to be like all those others
who gleefully accepted crosses, some actually even ASKING for them, and I read stuff like that and think, my god, WHY would you WANT to be abused, mocked, raped (mentally as well as physically), whip yourself till blood is pouring down your back, --- what does that accomplish? You aren't God Incarnate? Prayers for others are nice, but why ASK God to TORTURE you?
Try working with a sociopath, a real sociopath, for the past several months.
I can tell you from experience that if THAT doesn't have you filled with raging, furious,
blasphemous thoughts every day for hours on end (because your prayers for relief from this sadistic, thieving, remorseless, claims-to-be-Catholic MANIAC are going unanswered), nothing will.
If THAT, being subjected to a sociopath everyday,
isn't, ITSELF, enough torture for one person for 25 lifetimes, then NOTHING is or ever could be.

Thanks again, Robertanthony. I hope your chaplet had a beneficial effect on me.
And especially on YOU, as you were kind enough to offer it. I never expected that in
reply to what I wrote.
I got home, exhausted, took a KLONOPIN (because the suicidal thoughts are also becoming much more frequent these days. I won't DO it, but the urges to and the inner desperation, are there and can't be controlled by the will, you just have to reject the suggestion, as I do).

Tomorrow is another day. I have to get up and go to work. I advertised my Shift. If nobody picked it up, I have to go in. Just the thought of that has my stomach churning, because the Sociopath is going to be there tomorrow, and ALL psychiatrists tell you stay at least 100 feet away from such a person at all times, but this sociopath makes sure to invade your space in order to steal the fruit of your labor. I am so WAY PAST OVER having to deal with this insanity. Nonstop, and no jobs available right now to switch jobs, the bank account is empty and have bills, so can't quit. There is NO WAY out.
Thanks again, Robertanthony.

[Jaypeeto4]

Thank goodness, somebody picked up my advertised shift today
and I did not have to go in, and did not lose a "point" for an absence.

There was no way I could have dealt with That Sociopath today,
not with my nerves the way they are.

I am going to confession this evening.
Hate to say this, but the horrific thoughts and feelings WILL PROBABLY come
back, maybe within as soon as a day, NOT because I WANT them to, I don't,
but because, well, the stress of so many things going wrong all at once is,
simply, Unbearable.

But I am not going to apostasize. Today, the postman came, and my package
I ordered a couple of weeks ago from http://www.cenacle.co.uk
had arrived, and in it was my package of
Padre Pio Leaflets with 3rd class relics, touched to his bloody gloves, attached
to the leaflets.
I saw them, and kissed the package, and thought, good lord what's wrong with me?
How could I ever seriously declare myself to be apostasizing.

To Robertanthony: thank you for your prayer for me last night.
Things are still really bad, but without that prayer of yours, they
would probably be a lot, lot, lot WORSE. Thanks, sir.

[catharina]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

But I am not going to apostasize. .

That's good news for everyone.

Suffering is a horrific thing in life
yet it remains true that as Catholics
we are called to a life of suffering.

I hope your location (with "prosperity
gospel" shouted everywhere) does not
add to your torment in any way.

[catharina]

Prayers to do the will of God are a big first step.
God does rely on our cooperation - as in the following.

Next, for CERTAIN, check out all of your
Catholic resources!

Catholic Charities, Catholic hospitals -
they offer sliding scale fees in most places.
They can do your intake, assess you and provide
you with services that you so desperately need. That
might even include coverage for medicines. DO IT!

[Lie]

Yes it is wrong to express frustration and disappointment in the saint you have been praying to and to not have the answer you want. We should never feed these feelings or negative thoughts, we would be truly very ungrateful, the Saints intercede on our behalf because they love us and care about our salvation, we should be joyous that they hear us, for we are so unworthy of their Devine help. We are in a sad state spiritually if we become frustrated and not even think of God's Will but "our will", what we want. I suggest you read "Uniformity With God's Will" by St Alphonsus de Liguori, God's Will should be our desire & we should accept what ever answer we are given in reply to our prayers, frustration hinders us spiritually and being ungrateful to the saints who intercede on our behalf reflects the poor state of our souls. Remember as Christ has said to His Eternal Father "May your Will be done", so let us repeat it with Jesus Christ, Immaculate Mother Mary & the Saints in Heaven, "May Your Will be done!", the saints became such and are in heaven because they resigned themselves to God's Devine Will, let us do the same & accept whatever answer we recieve from our Heavenly Father!

I have prayed my novenas to St.Terese & each time I did not recieve the answer I wanted, I accepted it & it is God's Will & not mine be done. I am happy St.Terese listened to me & interceded for me, I who am so unworthy am glad this Saint has been there for me.

[Robertanthony]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

Thank goodness, somebody picked up my advertised shift today
and I did not have to go in, and did not lose a "point" for an absence.

There was no way I could have dealt with That Sociopath today,
not with my nerves the way they are.

I am going to confession this evening.
Hate to say this, but the horrific thoughts and feelings WILL PROBABLY come
back, maybe within as soon as a day, NOT because I WANT them to, I don't,
but because, well, the stress of so many things going wrong all at once is,
simply, Unbearable.

But I am not going to apostasize. Today, the postman came, and my package
I ordered a couple of weeks ago from http://www.cenacle.co.uk
had arrived, and in it was my package of
Padre Pio Leaflets with 3rd class relics, touched to his bloody gloves, attached
to the leaflets.
I saw them, and kissed the package, and thought, good lord what's wrong with me?
How could I ever seriously declare myself to be apostasizing.

To Robertanthony: thank you for your prayer for me last night.
Things are still really bad, but without that prayer of yours, they
would probably be a lot, lot, lot WORSE. Thanks, sir.

Great! I know what a day off work can do when one is drained and weary. Thank you Lord for your goodness. I'll pray for you again tomorrow. God bless.

[Friar David, O.Carm]

I have not read the majority of posts in this thread but I did read a couple at the beginning.


If one is praying to a saint and nothing happens then maybe the answer to the prayer is a "No".

This is something that we must understand and come to terms with. What we want, what we think is in our best interests, is not always so.

I pray every day that I am receive a physical healing. It has been over two and a half years now. I am coming understand that the answer may very well be "No". I am okay with that.

I struggle with those who teach and believe that all our prayers will be answered in the ways that we want. That all we have to do is pray and ask God and he will provide. What happens when this does not happens? Is there something wrong with us? Do we not have enough faith?

No, the answer is that we do not always get what we pray for but we always get what we need. Sometimes the answer is "No", sometimes it is "Not yet" but we must understand this and not show disappointment or frustration.

We must trust in God.

[randirhoades]

Dear Friend,

You're asking if it's wrong to get frustrated with a Saint? Right? I know Christians get angry with God, why not a Saint?

It's our nature to get angry and frustrated if our prayers go unanswered. Or we think they do. Yet, you have to understand and I know you know this that God's answers are not how we want, what we want and more. His timing is not our timing. He also answers prayers whether it is yes or no. I truly believe that. And like everyone is saying, God answers to our benefit. Not ours. Sorry for being repetitious.

I'm in the same boat but let me tell you this.

For a year, I'd been stressing about food, money, paying bills. Prayed and prayed and prayed like nobody's business. I prayed to God to Jesus, Holy Mother, St. Jude, more Saints and prayed Novenas for help in my situation. (I'm also disable so stressing and panicking was doing more harm, even causing my hair to fall out) Yet, I kept praying. Plus, I had people here praying that a miracle would happen. (Actually, I wanted Jesus himself to come down and help.) That's how much I wanted my prayers answered and Now.

Yet, something has changed a little. Within me. I'm not saying I still don't have melt downs, but, they are infrequent. I found out our biggest test is our faith. We have to believe with our whole hearts that God will help us. Still, when we take "burdens to the Cross", and lay them there sometimes we walk right back to the cross and take our burdens back losing the faith that our burdens are taken care of. It's the human in us to doubt. I learned that the hard way.

I hope you understand what I'm saying. I just walked in from outside and it's a kabillion degrees hot out and I think it fried my brain. Plus, I'm just a meat and potatoes type of person. If you get my drift.

Furthermore, I had a miracle happen yesterday which I never saw coming and I've been praising God for it. It ties in with all I'm asking for. But never in a million years would I believe it. I'm in shock.

But that doesn't mean all my problems vanished. I know my faith is going to continue to be tested more, probably always. Yet, I know now to let Jesus take the wheel and let Him "drive".

Maybe that's what you ought to do. Is tell God you can't take it anymore. I think sometimes we have to get so far down we have to reach up to touch the ground in order for us to "listen" to the voice of God. Even when we pray.

Jay, I really want you to be at rest. I really do. God knows your needs. Just like the sparrows don't worry about where their next meal comes from or the flowers that grow without help from human hands. God is in Control of everything. Let Him be in control of your whole life. (That is the test I'm having)

Forgive me if it sounds like I'm judging in any part of this post. I don't mean to.

One more thing. I'm only suggesting this. I go to a Catholic Counselor who has helped me tremendously. Or your Parish Priest would be willing to talk to you. I didn't read that you've tried these things so if you have, pardon me.

I will pray for softening of your trials and that God gives you inner peace, my friend. Oh, what I found out too is to keep praying. Jesus says pray without ceasing. Trust me, we will be heard. God will not let you go down in a sinking ship.

And don't forget to praise Him too. Lots to be thankful for. Pretty days, laughing children, if you can see, hear, talk, walk, etc...

Love ya'll,
Sheila is my real name. Loving everyone in the world is my aim.

FORTIFY me with the grace of Your Holy Spirit
and give Your peace to my soul
that I may be free from all needless anxiety,
solicitude and worry.
Help me to desire always
that which is pleasing and acceptable to You
so that Your will may be my will. AMEN

[randirhoades]

Originally Posted by catharina

Prayers to do the will of God are a big first step.
God does rely on our cooperation - as in the following.

Next, for CERTAIN, check out all of your
Catholic resources!

Catholic Charities, Catholic hospitals -
they offer sliding scale fees in most places.
They can do your intake, assess you and provide
you with services that you so desperately need. That
might even include coverage for medicines. DO IT!

That is good to suggest.

Love ya'll,
Sheila is my real name, loving everyone in the world is my true aim.



◄-----That makes me laugh hard! haha.

[catharina]

Originally Posted by randirhoades

Dear Friend,

You're asking if it's wrong to get frustrated with a Saint? Right? I know Christians get angry with God, why not a Saint?

It's our nature to get angry and frustrated if our prayers go unanswered. Or we think they do. Yet, you have to understand and I know you know this that God's answers are not how we want, what we want and more. His timing is not our timing. He also answers prayers whether it is yes or no. I truly believe that. And like everyone is saying, God answers to our benefit. Not ours. Sorry for being repetitious.

I'm in the same boat but let me tell you this.

For a year, I'd been stressing about food, money, paying bills. Prayed and prayed and prayed like nobody's business. I prayed to God to Jesus, Holy Mother, St. Jude, more Saints and prayed Novenas for help in my situation. (I'm also disable so stressing and panicking was doing more harm, even causing my hair to fall out) Yet, I kept praying. Plus, I had people here praying that a miracle would happen. (Actually, I wanted Jesus himself to come down and help.) That's how much I wanted my prayers answered and Now.

Yet, something has changed a little. Within me. I'm not saying I still don't have melt downs, but, they are infrequent. I found out our biggest test is our faith. We have to believe with our whole hearts that God will help us. Still, when we take "burdens to the Cross", and lay them there sometimes we walk right back to the cross and take our burdens back losing the faith that our burdens are taken care of. It's the human in us to doubt. I learned that the hard way.

I hope you understand what I'm saying. I just walked in from outside and it's a kabillion degrees hot out and I think it fried my brain. Plus, I'm just a meat and potatoes type of person. If you get my drift.

Furthermore, I had a miracle happen yesterday which I never saw coming and I've been praising God for it. It ties in with all I'm asking for. But never in a million years would I believe it. I'm in shock.

But that doesn't mean all my problems vanished. I know my faith is going to continue to be tested more, probably always. Yet, I know now to let Jesus take the wheel and let Him "drive".

Maybe that's what you ought to do. Is tell God you can't take it anymore. I think sometimes we have to get so far down we have to reach up to touch the ground in order for us to "listen" to the voice of God. Even when we pray.

Jay, I really want you to be at rest. I really do. God knows your needs. Just like the sparrows don't worry about where their next meal comes from or the flowers that grow without help from human hands. God is in Control of everything. Let Him be in control of your whole life. (That is the test I'm having)

Forgive me if it sounds like I'm judging in any part of this post. I don't mean to.

One more thing. I'm only suggesting this. I go to a Catholic Counselor who has helped me tremendously. Or your Parish Priest would be willing to talk to you. I didn't read that you've tried these things so if you have, pardon me.

I will pray for softening of your trials and that God gives you inner peace, my friend. Oh, what I found out too is to keep praying. Jesus says pray without ceasing. Trust me, we will be heard. God will not let you go down in a sinking ship.

And don't forget to praise Him too. Lots to be thankful for. Pretty days, laughing children, if you can see, hear, talk, walk, etc...

In all things, give thanks! YES!!!

Love ya'll,
Sheila is my real name. Loving everyone in the world is my aim.

FORTIFY me with the grace of Your Holy Spirit
and give Your peace to my soul
that I may be free from all needless anxiety,
solicitude and worry.
Help me to desire always
that which is pleasing and acceptable to You
so that Your will may be my will. AMEN

[lulu88]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

Padre Pio certainly was, and still is !! - a spiritual Giant.

A few observations:
and not at ALL, not at ALL, intended to minimize his, and other great ascetics,
very real and serious sufferings.

But they knew where their next meal was coming from.
Their sufferings were horrible, indeed,
but they knew ((unless the bottom fell out of the whole world)) that they had a place to
sleep at night, their families wouldn't go hungry or their elderly parents have the power shut off on them or, god forbid, be evicted from their house.
They also had, forgive me for mentioning it, Special Signs from God
BY WHICH they ***knew***, not thought or believed, but KNEW, that they were
in God's Favor.
In other words, we all need a LITTLE concrete encouragement from somewhere, sometime. Even Jesus, who was experiencing in Gethsemane the beyond-horrifying
visions of his coming torture/murder, knew with 100% certainty, being God incarnate,
that there was NO WAY he could fall or be lost. We, of course, could never know that,
so a few concrete signs here and there are necessary for us when we are really, really down and hurting.
The good Padre, suffered unbelievable pain from those Stigmata, losing, I think, at least a cup of blood a day from that side-wound alone. But even that, horribly painful though it was, was in fact a clear sign from God that God WAS with him. A painful ASSURANCE, to be sure, but an ASSURANCE nonetheless. (( He once told a woman who asked him if he "enjoyed" the stigmata (( enjoyed?!?!?!?! )) and he is said to have replied,
Do You think that God gave them to me for DECORATIONS?

God is with you always, especially when you suffer, like I said the suffering soul is closest to God.

Its hard I know , I will pray for you and wish you peace and happiness.

Keep praying.

Lulu

[kmuestwin]

We aren't on the Earth to get what we want. We are here for what God wants us to do.


Our holy Saints are not hotlines for the prosperity gospel. Most Saints lived harder lives then we will ever be blessed with. Out of the crucible of a difficult life came the rewards of true holiness. Don't think that there isn't a reason for struggle. We suffer and it brings us closer to God.

Mother Teresa said that when she came to America, she saw people suffering as badly as those in India. Most people here are not suffering materially but are suffering spiritually from loneliness and isolation.

Whenever we feel lost and alone, we are feeling an infinitesimal fraction of what Christ was feeling on the cross. Use this time of struggle to find spiritual wholeness while you are lacking in the material realm. Unite yourself more fully with Christ's Passion and use this to see the light in your life.

Don't give up on God because He won't give up on you.






P.S. Please don't look at this and think its all just platitudes to make you feel better. I thought long and hard over what to say because I understand how you feel and I will be praying for your spiritual well being.

[Konnor]

Keep in mind saints are only going to do what God wants them to do. Furthermore we should pray to the saints to intercede for us to father, because they have greater favor with God. We should always pray to God and God alone the saints should intercede, so make sure that you are not praying to any being but God. Also saints owe us nothing anything they do for us is out of their kindness.

[lulu88]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

We aren't on the Earth to get what we want. We are here for what God wants us to do.


Our holy Saints are not hotlines for the prosperity gospel. Most Saints lived harder lives then we will ever be blessed with. Out of the crucible of a difficult life came the rewards of true holiness. Don't think that there isn't a reason for struggle. We suffer and it brings us closer to God.

Mother Teresa said that when she came to America, she saw people suffering as badly as those in India. Most people here are not suffering materially but are suffering spiritually from loneliness and isolation.

Whenever we feel lost and alone, we are feeling an infinitesimal fraction of what Christ was feeling on the cross. Use this time of struggle to find spiritual wholeness while you are lacking in the material realm. Unite yourself more fully with Christ's Passion and use this to see the light in your life.

Don't give up on God because He won't give up on you.






P.S. Please don't look at this and think its all just platitudes to make you feel better. I thought long and hard over what to say because I understand how you feel and I will be praying for your spiritual well being.

Well said.! Goodness always comes out of evil, and the Saints are prime examples of how a soul should imitate God. They lived the way of the cross, as God has asked us all.

Lulu

[lulu88]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

Thanks everyone for your earlier comments.

Went to evening Mass tonight.
I could not bring myself to even participate.
I just sat there.
The thoughts that were coming to me, and rushing through my head,
for over a half hour while I was waiting for the mass to start,
would make Daddy Warbucks grow thick wiry hair.
They were that shocking, even to me.

Then after Mass came time for the Divine Mercy devotion.
I got up, and walked to the back door.
I said, I can't do this anymore.
Because, in my heart, though I want to,
and though I do believe it INTELLECTUALLY,
but in my heart, I don't buy this anymore. Not a word of it.
Horrible?
Maybe, but that's how I feel. I'm "Over" all of it.
Enough is enough. One cross, okay. Two crosses? Okay.
But five hundred at once, with no relief?
Sorry, but I'm not a masochist.

I respect those who DO buy it interiorly,
but from what I've experienced, constantly,
for years now,
for me to continue to CLAIM to believe it, would be a bigger, lying Sin
than out and out Apostasy.

Maybe one day I will believe it again.
Maybe ten years from now.
Maybe ten hours from now.
I don't know. I can't predict the future.
But for now, no more pretending.

Signing off. Thank you for all your comments.
This has been an eventful day.
Signing off as in "goodbye," not see y'all later.

Your being tested, Spritual conflicts are part of Lucifers deciet to bring you down further.
You need to keep praying and reading the bible. Everyone goes through some sort of spritual warfare, understand first why you are going through this. Talk to a Priest.

Lulu