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View Poll Results: About how often do you receive the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation?
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1: Never
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2: Once a decade
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4: A few times a year
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19.44% |
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5: Once a month
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27.78% |
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6: A couple times a month
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8.33% |
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7: Every other week
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8.33% |
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8: Once a week
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25.00% |
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9: A couple times a week
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10: Daily
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Jun 16, '12, 6:54 am
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Join Date: November 27, 2008
Posts: 513
Religion: Christianity (Roman Rite of the Catholic Church)
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Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Looking at the criteria for mortal sin, the Catechism says,
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1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." (Reconciliatio et paenitentia 17 § 12)
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1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.
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[1860] The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders.
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1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.
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Regarding each criteria for mortal sin, then, - How am I to know whether I gave "complete consent", which appears identical to "consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice"? I think paragraph 1860 applies in my case, so that it wasn't "complete consent", but I have difficulty concluding that it was not "a personal choice", which appears synonymous with "complete consent".
- I'm also not certain how grave it actually was. Some would argue it was a venial sin, especially when compared to other sins.
- I also think the same "pathological disorder" that I think is involved also causes me to lose "full knowledge" about what I'm doing. I've been trying to quit for a while.
So how is one to know that one has committed a mortal sin? It seems very rare that such can ever be the case. The sentence after the one I quoted from paragraph 1860 is,
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Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
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This appears to me to be the only occasion where one can commit mortal sin, "by deliberate choice of evil [chosen in malice]". It appears to me that malice is the only opportunity for mortal sin, because only in malice can someone choose evil with full knowledge and full consent. Looking up malice in the dictionary, "the desire to do evil." For every other occasion of sin (that I can think of), the evil is chosen because there is some good the person is seeking, hence there is a lack of either full knowledge or full consent: In effect, the person is trying to do good that the person thinks he sees in the act, and inadvertently does evil instead, usually realizing it after the fact.
What do you think? Are there opportunities to commit mortal sin without malice? How can one know whether one has committed mortal sin?
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Jun 16, '12, 8:07 am
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Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: December 2, 2007
Posts: 1,524
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
I take a simple approach. Did what I do make Jesus sad? Would it disappoint Him? All sin does disappoint Him, but it's easy to knock it out of the park.
As I get older, I have to say that any sin I do is deliberate. I don't say, 'I am going to purposely hurt Jesus', but I know what I am doing. Also, as I get older, the threshold of grave matter becomes smaller. I am supposed to know better at the point. In my 20's not so much, but now I know and understand why things are wrong.
__________________
Come to my blog and read the musing of a very busy father of five six.
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Jun 16, '12, 10:38 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: September 14, 2007
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
If you are a person who Loves Jesus and seeks to the best of you ability to treat Him and others with the same Love you show yourself.. then I agree that it is very difficult to commit a truly mortal sin. That said - there are certain things to consider and which might help to clarify some things for you.
1) Mortal (deadly) sin requires a rejection of God and His lordship over your life.
If you consider the requirements for mortal sin in the CCC, full knowledge and deliberate consent, it should be obvious that one cannot sin, with full knowledge and consent, without first rejecting the Lordship of God in their lives. They may act emotionally - out of anger perhaps - and they may quickly repent, but at the time, because they knew what they were was wrong...there was that rejection of God. They may not have thought of it in those terms...but there it is.
2) We have many bad habits - all of us - that we are trying to overcome. We seek to reduce and ultimately eliminate them. The fact that this does not happen overnight (in most cases) is the reason that we refer to it as growing in holiness.
While we are fighting these things there will be times when we falter. We might be able to come up with various reasons for our failures, and certainly we quickly repent of them, but they remain failures - set backs on the road. We need to get back up and keep moving forward. Which brings me to the third thing...
3) Confession is not just for "mortal sin". If you have sin that you feel concerned enough to come here about - then go to confession and talk to your priest. He knows you better than we do...Plus - whether it was actually a mortal sin or not...the Graces received will be of outstanding help to you.
Hope some of this helps.
Peace
James
__________________
The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"
Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
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Jun 16, '12, 11:09 am
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Veteran Member
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Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,990
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
It's what examination of conscience is about.
You must examine whether you committed a grave sin with full knowledge and full consent.
If you can not determine whether you did, you did not have full knowledge.
It's that simple really.
Also, mortal sin will have an effect on your spiritual life, at least it does for me.
It weigh's heavily on my conscience and prayer is almost impossible, until I've confessed.
Best bet, make confession on a regular basis and find a good confessor. When you find one, hang on to him for dear life.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Jun 16, '12, 11:17 am
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Senior Member
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Posts: 6,808
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
I just want to make it clear that if a person says: "I know that it is grave matter and I am doing it anyway but I still love God and I do not really mean to offend Him and I do not want to be separated from Him" then that person is still committing a mortal sin.
__________________
"Domine, ad quem ibimus? Verba vitae aeternae habes. Et nos credimus, et cognovimus, quia tu es Christus Filius Dei."
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Jun 16, '12, 11:20 am
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Veteran Member
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano
I just want to make it clear that if a person says: "I know that it is grave matter and I am doing it anyway but I still love God and I do not really mean to offend Him and I do not want to be separated from Him" then that person is still committing a mortal sin.
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That's what full knowledge and consent is.
Jim
__________________
"God can not be grasped except through love."
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Jun 16, '12, 11:21 am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: March 6, 2006
Posts: 6,808
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKH
.............................
3) Confession is not just for "mortal sin". If you have sin that you feel concerned enough to come here about - then go to confession and talk to your priest. He knows you better than we do...Plus - whether it was actually a mortal sin or not...the Graces received will be of outstanding help to you.
Hope some of this helps.
Peace
James
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This is an extremely important and good point. A lot of people are too cavalier with venial sins and they refuse to understand that through venial sins we risk to pave our way to hell.
__________________
"Domine, ad quem ibimus? Verba vitae aeternae habes. Et nos credimus, et cognovimus, quia tu es Christus Filius Dei."
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Jun 16, '12, 11:23 am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: March 6, 2006
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
That's what full knowledge and consent is.
Jim
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I know but a lot of people do not want to think that way and Bl. JPII had to make that point quite clear during one of his catechetical instructions. People like to sin and to rationalize that they did not sin, I heard catechists doing that and teaching that.
__________________
"Domine, ad quem ibimus? Verba vitae aeternae habes. Et nos credimus, et cognovimus, quia tu es Christus Filius Dei."
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Jun 16, '12, 4:38 pm
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New Member
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Join Date: December 29, 2011
Posts: 18
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
For me, I think all I can do is pray that family/friends hearts are open to the Sacrament. I was one of those people who avoided for a long time. Not because I didn't think I was sinful, but just because the longer your away, the easier it is to stay away and the more awkward it is to walk through the door for the first time in a long time. Now, I am every month, (maybe 3 weeks sometime, or 5 the next, but I am consistently there), I feel drawn there, frequent reception of the Sacrament has changed my life, even in regard to venial sins. Friends have flat out told me, "Confession doesn't help, most people confess the same stuff over and over", and if you are going once a year or less, this is true, but start going more regular and that will change. The thing is, no one (except God) could have changed my mind when I felt that way, and so I pray for God to open their hearts to the Sacrament.
Peace.
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Jun 16, '12, 7:35 pm
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Forum Master
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Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 15,786
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereality
It seems very rare that such can ever be the case. The sentence after the one I quoted from paragraph 1860 is, This appears to me to be the only occasion where one can commit mortal sin, "by deliberate choice of evil [chosen in malice]". It appears to me that malice is the only opportunity for mortal sin, because only in malice can someone choose evil with full knowledge and full consent. Looking up malice in the dictionary, "the desire to do evil." For every other occasion of sin (that I can think of), the evil is chosen because there is some good the person is seeking, hence there is a lack of either full knowledge or full consent: In effect, the person is trying to do good that the person thinks he sees in the act, and inadvertently does evil instead, usually realizing it after the fact.
What do you think? Are there opportunities to commit mortal sin without malice? How can one know whether one has committed mortal sin?
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No such is not rare and No it is NOT only via malice that one can commit a mortal sin. Bl. Pope John Paul II for one made it clear that such is the case. The Catechism there is stating that a Mortal sin done out of malice --is the gravest (worse than other mortal sins).
One does not have to commit it out of say hatred for God (though that is yes malice and much worse mortal sin) "For mortal sin exists also when a person knowingly and willingly, for whatever reason, chooses something gravely disordered." --Bl Pope John Paul II
Sin is always chosen under an "appearance" of it being a good for one...but one knows one is choosing rather something that is evil.
Mortal sins (grave sin/serious sin -they are interchangable terms) is a very grave evil--indeed deadly. Done with Malice it is even worse.
Many mortal sins are likely committed out of weakness.
Can there be mitigating factors? Sure. One can address such with ones confessor.
The Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI gives a good summary:
395. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
396. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/compen...um-ccc_en.html
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
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Last edited by Bookcat; Jun 16, '12 at 7:48 pm.
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Jun 16, '12, 7:42 pm
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Forum Master
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKH
1) Mortal (deadly) sin requires a rejection of God and His lordship over your life.
If you consider the requirements for mortal sin in the CCC, full knowledge and deliberate consent, it should be obvious that one cannot sin, with full knowledge and consent, without first rejecting the Lordship of God in their lives. They may act emotionally - out of anger perhaps - and they may quickly repent, but at the time, because they knew what they were was wrong...there was that rejection of God. They may not have thought of it in those terms...but there it is.
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It is important to note that one does not have to explicitly reject the Lordship of God -such would not be required to commit a mortal sin--one can commit a mortal sins "for whatever reason" without first rejecting the Lordship of God (though granted the moral sin does go against that Lordship and in that act is a kind of rejection of such)--indeed often they are done in weakness by those who want Jesus to be Lord of their lives..but commit a mortal sin in a moment of weakness...and by the grace of God quickly turn back to the Lord.
Let us pray as Jesus said --to not enter into temptation-- to turn to him when tempted ...so as not to sin.
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VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
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Jun 17, '12, 4:24 am
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Join Date: September 14, 2007
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat
It is important to note that one does not have to explicitly reject the Lordship of God -such would not be required to commit a mortal sin--one can commit a mortal sins "for whatever reason" without first rejecting the Lordship of God (though granted the moral sin does go against that Lordship and in that act is a kind of rejection of such)--indeed often they are done in weakness by those who want Jesus to be Lord of their lives..but commit a mortal sin in a moment of weakness...and by the grace of God quickly turn back to the Lord.
Let us pray as Jesus said --to not enter into temptation-- to turn to him when tempted ...so as not to sin.
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Thank you Bookcat - You bring a very good point that I neglected. The rejection need not be explicit...
Yet - in the case of Mortal sin, it seems that the conditions of knowledge and choice in a "grave matter" make that rejection more "explicit" even if we are not "consciously aware" of it....
Peace
James
__________________
The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"
Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
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Jun 17, '12, 12:15 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: August 18, 2011
Posts: 931
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
I just want to make it clear that if a person says: "I know that it is grave matter and I am doing it anyway but I still love God and I do not really mean to offend Him and I do not want to be separated from Him" then that person is still committing a mortal sin.
Well, this caused a rise in my anxiety! I have been worried about sinning mortally due to cursing the Lord in my head. I have OCD, and sometimes the thoughts just pop into my head; other times I think I'm causing the thoughts by thinking about blasphemy if that makes sense. Sometimes it seems like it's really me doing it, even though right afterwards I say, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.' or "Lord, I don't really feel that way about you." I've read that blasphemous thoughts are "blasphemy of the heart"; that is, you think the thoughts because you don't love the Lord. So I've told myself that since I love the Lord, I am not blaspheming him and it is my OCD, and I should ignore it. But now I read that we don't have to stop loving the Lord in order to sin mortally. I have been getting the courage to ignore my thoughts and receive communion several times a week, but now I do not know whether I am rationalizing mortal sin or not.
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Jun 17, '12, 12:22 pm
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica97
I just want to make it clear that if a person says: "I know that it is grave matter and I am doing it anyway but I still love God and I do not really mean to offend Him and I do not want to be separated from Him" then that person is still committing a mortal sin.
Well, this caused a rise in my anxiety! I have been worried about sinning mortally due to cursing the Lord in my head. I have OCD, and sometimes the thoughts just pop into my head; other times I think I'm causing the thoughts by thinking about blasphemy if that makes sense. Sometimes it seems like it's really me doing it, even though right afterwards I say, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.' or "Lord, I don't really feel that way about you." I've read that blasphemous thoughts are "blasphemy of the heart"; that is, you think the thoughts because you don't love the Lord. So I've told myself that since I love the Lord, I am not blaspheming him and it is my OCD, and I should ignore it. But now I read that we don't have to stop loving the Lord in order to sin mortally. I have been getting the courage to ignore my thoughts and receive communion several times a week, but now I do not know whether I am rationalizing mortal sin or not.
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(The point the person was making is that a person does not have to hate God or something in order to commit a mortal sins...one can fall via weakness say into sexual sins without intending to hate God or the like.....)
Be sure to have a "regular confessor".
One does not commit a mortal sin without deliberate consent.
This can be good to read from Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers senior apologist fame:
http://jimmyakin.com/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html
(I will note in posting the above that we on the forum can not give medical etc advice on treating things like OCD--one needs to see a professional http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=134056. So please do not take the fact that Jimmy there notes certain things as being what one is to do medically or theoputically --rather see a doctor etc to address such in your case. I post it for his moral theology comments).
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Last edited by Bookcat; Jun 17, '12 at 12:35 pm.
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Jun 17, '12, 12:35 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: August 18, 2011
Posts: 931
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Re: Mortal sin or not? How can one tell? How can one do it?
Be sure to have a "regular confessor".
The last few times I've been to Confession I've been to a different priest than my regular confessor, mainly due to the convenience of times (available daily instead of just on an hour for Saturday). But I've been thinking I need to get back to my regular confessor b/c he has been very helpful to me over the past year. I also have recently read about Brother Lawrence (who is not a saint but "blessed"). He suffered from scrupulosity and finally he just decided that no matter whether he was going to heaven or hell, he would choose to serve the Lord. I found that quite helpful as well. I guess I'll just continue to serve the Lord with love even if I am never totally sure that I am in a state of Grace.
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