Teleportation Error/Soul Bifurcation

runningdude · #1 Jun 19, '12, 8:49 pm

Say there is an error while teleporting a crew member from the star ship to the planet surface. During this error, and exact duplicate of the crew member is created. Both arrive safely on the planet surface. Would the crewman's soul" A) "bifurcate" into two souls; B) remain in one body and a new soul conceived for the duplicate; C) the original body dies, and a new soul is created for the two "duplicates"?

**GEddie** · #2 Jun 19, '12, 9:37 pm

Soul does not divide.

Teleprtation may be physically undoable. But if it happened as described, both bodies would die, IMNAAHO and the soul would go wherever dead souls would in this situation go.

ICXC NIKA

gilbs72 · #3 Jun 19, '12, 11:05 pm

Most likely it will be like bearing children - new soul. Except in this fictional scenario, we won't be able to tell which is the parent and which is the child. Another possible perspective is that a soul and body need not be 1:1 - which we are (naturally) conditioned to think. There can be two bodies, two consciousnesses, two personas, etc. but still one soul. Upon reaching heaven that one soul will be accountable for what both bodies have accomplished or sinned.

**GEddie** · #4 Jun 19, '12, 11:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilbs72

Most likely it will be like bearing children - new soul. Except in this fictional scenario, we won't be able to tell which is the parent and which is the child. Another possible perspective is that a soul and body need not be 1:1 - which we are (naturally) conditioned to think. There can be two bodies, two consciousnesses, two personas, etc. but still one soul. Upon reaching heaven that one soul will be accountable for what both bodies have accomplished or sinned.

Nope, your second case doesn't work as that would imply dividing the soul.

Two bodies imply two minds. But the mind is generated by the soul.

Also, what if one body goes into unrepented sin, and the other does not? Which body would the soul accompany to eternity?

ICXC NIKA

stephe1987 · #5 Jun 20, '12, 12:35 am

How can matter be duplicated? It's not like a computer program, just copy and paste.

I think a person would have to be taken apart and put back together again, cell by cell, except really fast or obviously the person would die.

And if there was any kind of error I think they'd be dead.

And if there was some sort of rapid cell division that caused duplication, again, they'd be dead. It wouldn't be two of the same body it would be a cancerous mess because when does the copying stop? And also putting someone together wrong would result in death.

Nec5 · #6 Jun 20, '12, 12:40 am

Teleportation clone is soulless and becomes a killer hating all life. Think of an intelligent zombie.

**GEddie** · #7 Jun 20, '12, 1:02 am

This sort of stuff may be why teleprtation remains impossible.

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SonCatcher · #8 Jun 20, '12, 12:59 pm

One description of how teleportation works indicates that the original person is actually killed by the energy beam and another, physically identical one is created in the new place. Given the serious moral issues this entails, it seems to me they should be thoroughly examined before implementing such technology on humans.

In the supposition that it is found to not by killing the original person but that body and soul are indeed properly transferred without death, any duplicate caused by "transporter malfunction" (the most abused plotline in all of Star Trek, except perhaps for "temporal anomalies") would be the same as twinning: the duplicate would have a new, unique spiritual soul with the unusual circumstance of an exact copy of physical features and memories (identical twins actually have minute physical differences and obviously have different memories). They should probably take a cue from "Multiplicity" and give the duplicates unique tattoos in order to keep them straight.

MrZoom · #9 Jun 20, '12, 1:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEddie

This sort of stuff may be why teleprtation remains impossible.

ICXC NIKA

This.

Teleportation is fun as fantasy, as on "Star Trek", but IIRC, Gene Roddenberry used the transporter gimmick so he wouldn't have to land the ship every week. In real life, even if there was theoretically a way to do it without killing the transportee, it would require an INCREDIBLE amount of energy and data storage.

**GEddie** · #10 Jun 20, '12, 2:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZoom

This.

Teleportation is fun as fantasy, as on "Star Trek", but IIRC, Gene Roddenberry used the transporter gimmick so he wouldn't have to land the ship every week. In real life, even if there was theoretically a way to do it without killing the transportee, it would require an INCREDIBLE amount of energy and data storage.

Or even if it did not kill them, it might easily scramble his/her mind. Not worth it.

ICXC NIKA

curlycool89 · #11 Jun 20, '12, 3:20 pm

The transporter question is an interesting moral quandary, because the big question is can you transport a soul (which is immaterial)?

As SonCatcher pointed out, a transporter would likely be done by transferring the matter to energy, sending the energy signal somewhere and reassembling the matter. Can you take a soul and digitize it (transfer it to energy)? The other question is could you reassemble a soul, or in other words re-create a soul? I say no, because only God can create the soul.

So, this becomes a question of personal identity, a metaphysical question. Being Catholic, we'd subscribe to the "same soul same person" identity. You can't have 2 people with the same identity (it's a logical contradiction, you can't have 2 of a unique being), so the first option ("Soul splits into two soul") would be false. Between the other 2 (which are logically possible), I'd say #2, new soul for the clone.

didymus · #12 Jun 23, '12, 4:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZoom

Teleportation is fun as fantasy, as on "Star Trek", but IIRC, Gene Roddenberry used the transporter gimmick so he wouldn't have to land the ship every week. In real life, even if there was theoretically a way to do it without killing the transportee, it would require an INCREDIBLE amount of energy and data storage.

Exactly. For a ST-style transporter to work it would have to have to analyse, store and transmit an exact copy of the quantum state of every atom in your body. It would also be a people-xerox; you are destroyed in the process of being turned into information but the information could be used to make more. No more surgery, just "print out" your latest update. Or, you could edit the information, removing cancer cells, far more precisely than with scalpels or lasers.

Also, using a Star-Trek transporter is suicide. You cease to exist between Point A and Point B. Presumably the soul leaves the body since their is no body for that interval, no matter how short. Whether the body that comes out has a soul I don't know but it won't be yours.

The only "safe" transporter would be one that generates a wormhole between A and B.

Btw, you're right about the transporter on Star Trek to avoid shuttling up and down to planets, Roddenberry has admitted this.

runningdude · #13 Jun 24, '12, 8:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

Exactly. For a ST-style transporter to work it would have to have to analyse, store and transmit an exact copy of the quantum state of every atom in your body. It would also be a people-xerox; you are destroyed in the process of being turned into information but the information could be used to make more. No more surgery, just "print out" your latest update. Or, you could edit the information, removing cancer cells, far more precisely than with scalpels or lasers.

Also, using a Star-Trek transporter is suicide. You cease to exist between Point A and Point B. Presumably the soul leaves the body since their is no body for that interval, no matter how short. Whether the body that comes out has a soul I don't know but it won't be yours.

The only "safe" transporter would be one that generates a wormhole between A and B.

Btw, you're right about the transporter on Star Trek to avoid shuttling up and down to planets, Roddenberry has admitted this.

Now that I think of it, I think Gene wrote the transporters more as "wormhole", in that they were supposed to excite a person's atoms heightened state, and physically move them from place to place. The scenes where a person was duplicated I referenced earlier must have been sloppy writing!

Armyvet007 · #14 Jun 24, '12, 9:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by runningdude

Say there is an error while teleporting a crew member from the star ship to the planet surface. During this error, and exact duplicate of the crew member is created. Both arrive safely on the planet surface. Would the crewman's soul" A) "bifurcate" into two souls; B) remain in one body and a new soul conceived for the duplicate; C) the original body dies, and a new soul is created for the two "duplicates"?

I'm not a Trekie, but if replicator techonolgy [Earl Grey tea please] works similar to transporter technology then the transporter is really just a cloning device [which kills the original when "uploading" the pattern for the clone]. Add to this the fact that one can "play" with the transporter memory file of a person [Don't like that wart on your nose and your beer gut?, slip the transporter tech a bottle of whiskey and have him edit your file].

Armyvet007 · #15 Jun 24, '12, 9:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nec5

Teleportation clone is soulless and becomes a killer hating all life. Think of an intelligent zombie.

Only if it has a goatee.