My Catholic friend wants to be an Episcopalian. - Page 2

CMatt25 · #16 Jun 21, '12, 12:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwendolen

There are a lot of Anglican churches that have broken away from the Episcopal Church. There are 3 in our area alone. I guess you could say all Episcopalians are Anglican, but not all Anglicans are Episcopalian. A Episcopal Church that decides it believes the Creeds, but can no longer tolerate the liberal Episcopal Church will sometimes break off and become just Anglican.

There are also a lot that haven't. "Sometimes" is the keyword. I think too it might depend on the area.

GKC · #17 Jun 21, '12, 3:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Conor already said, "Episcopalians are Anglicans. The Anglican Church is a worldwide communion of which the Episcopal Church is the US branch".

Not quite, but close.

GKC

CMatt25 · #18 Jun 21, '12, 1:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKC

Not quite, but close.

GKC

"The Episcopal Church has members in the United States, as well as in Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Haiti, Honduras, Micronesia, Puerto Rico, Taiwan, Venezuela, and the Virgin Islands.

We strive to love our neighbors as ourselves and respect the dignity of every person.

The Episcopal Church is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, and traces its heritage to the beginnings of Christianity."

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/i-am-episcopalian

Nicea325 · #19 Jun 21, '12, 1:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twohearts14

We haven't discussed it. I haven't really spoken with him for awhile because he's been away at college and very busy. I know he recently went through a problem at school regarding being falsely accused of something, but I don't know the details. I also know he supports gay marriage and has always had a soft spot for Anglican liturgy and Byzantine iconography. Not sure why he decided on the Episcopals, though. Aren't they completely different from the Anglicans?

I think I'll talk to his mom about it, since we're also friends on Facebook. I don't think she'll mind, and I'd really like some answers. This is weird. :P

Pardon my intrusion and assumptions,but your friends seems to be bording on "cafeteria" Christianity:

I like this church because it sees eye-to-eye with my personal beliefs.

Nabooru · #20 Jun 21, '12, 1:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor7

Just to clear up a few things, Episcopalians are Anglicans. The Anglican Church is a worldwide communion of which the Episcopal Church is the US branch. So essentially, this friend was Anglican, became Catholic and is now going back to the Anglican Church.

Some parishes in the US ordain women, some don't. Some parishes in the US ordain homosexuals and some don't. Both the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church in Canada tend to be more liberal than its counterparts within the Communion which has caused enormous controversy. Perhaps there will be changes with the new Archbishop of Canterbury, but one can only speculate.

Was Anglican. Now the ACNA fills that role.

Episcopal membership has dropped by a third in the past few decades. There's only so much you can put up as sham Christianity before people stop buying it. Our local episcopal "churches" regularly host sermons by imams and Buddhist monks, have bubble-blowing ceremonies on Pentecost, and in general have watered Christianity down to new age wishy-washy feel-good theology. if you don't believe in the resurrection, or even think there is no afterlife and Jesus never really existed in a literal sense, TEC is for you.

What I don't understand is why KJS is out vilifying those anglicans that leave TEC when it's supposed to be all about openness and dialogue. And why she's forcing congregations to give up their churches so TEC can have a bunch of empty churches lying around. (But they're THEIR churches, darn it!).

GKC · #21 Jun 21, '12, 1:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMatt25

"The Episcopal Church has members in the United States, as well as in Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Haiti, Honduras, Micronesia, Puerto Rico, Taiwan, Venezuela, and the Virgin Islands.

We strive to love our neighbors as ourselves and respect the dignity of every person.

The Episcopal Church is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, and traces its heritage to the beginnings of Christianity."

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/i-am-episcopalian

Yes, I know. But the Episcopal Church is not a branch of the world-wide Anglican Communion. It is an independent church, one of 38 such that form the Communion. None of which are branches of the communion, but equal, independent, constituent parts of it. Which is the point of my comment.

And the Anglican Communion does not exhaust the concept of Anglican. There are Anglican jurisdictions not a part of the Communion.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

RileyG · #22 Jun 21, '12, 1:42 pm

I do hope that more Episcopalians become Catholic (Praise to God forever and ever. Amen). Also, not to mention, the Episcopalian Church is slowly dying, it's not going to make it IMHO. I know there are several former Episcopalians decided to become Catholic because of how extreme-liberal the church is. Your friend needs much prayers.

God Bless

Edit: I'm not referring to Anglicans, in my experience, many Anglicans are closer to Catholic than Protestants.

57Bill · #23 Jun 21, '12, 1:53 pm

Isn't there a "Pastoral Provision" by John Paul II for certain Episcopalians?

What's wrong if he is joining one of these churches?

Nabooru · #24 Jun 21, '12, 1:55 pm

I'm an Anglo-Catholic myself. Most Anglo-Catholics these days eventually end up in Rome, which I might do. There are still theological issues on which I am very much Protestant, though. Right now I'm attending an ACNA churh.

Tyuiop411 · #25 Jun 21, '12, 3:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabooru

I'm an Anglo-Catholic myself. Most Anglo-Catholics these days eventually end up in Rome, which I might do. There are still theological issues on which I am very much Protestant, though. Right now I'm attending an ACNA churh.

Are there many Anglo-Catholic parishes in the ACNA? From what I understood the ACNA was mostly comprised of Evangelical low-church congregations.

Nabooru · #26 Jun 21, '12, 3:18 pm

These days most Anglo-Catholics end up going to Rome. I might myself one day. There are a few parishes here and there, though. I think a lot of it depends on the original congregation, for example. REC congregations are more evangelical, although that being said, I attend an REC parish and it's more liturgical that my old LCMS church. I remember getting dirty looks for crossing myself back then.

Conor7 · #27 Jun 21, '12, 4:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKC

Yes, I know. But the Episcopal Church is not a branch of the world-wide Anglican Communion. It is an independent church, one of 38 such that form the Communion. None of which are branches of the communion, but equal, independent, constituent parts of it. Which is the point of my comment.

And the Anglican Communion does not exhaust the concept of Anglican. There are Anglican jurisdictions not a part of the Communion.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

That's fair and you're right. I over simplified.

Conor7 · #28 Jun 21, '12, 4:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RileyG

I do hope that more Episcopalians become Catholic (Praise to God forever and ever. Amen). Also, not to mention, the Episcopalian Church is slowly dying, it's not going to make it IMHO. I know there are several former Episcopalians decided to become Catholic because of how extreme-liberal the church is. Your friend needs much prayers.

God Bless

Edit: I'm not referring to Anglicans, in my experience, many Anglicans are closer to Catholic than Protestants.

I'm sure numbers are down in the Episcopal Church as they are for all churches save maybe the Pentecostal movement. However, I don't think you can speculate that the Episcopal Church is slowing dying because you have a few former Episcopalians in your parish anymore than I can say the Episcopal Church is thriving because a fourth of my parish is made up of former Roman Catholics. For good reasons or for bad reasons, people church shop.

Tyuiop411 · #29 Jun 21, '12, 4:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor7

I'm sure numbers are down in the Episcopal Church as they are for all churches save maybe the Pentecostal movement. However, I don't think you can speculate that the Episcopal Church is slowing dying because you have a few former Episcopalians in your parish anymore than I can say the Episcopal Church is thriving because a fourth of my parish is made up of former Roman Catholics. For good reasons or for bad reasons, people church shop.

Well all mainline Protestant churches are in decline and have been for decades. But the Episcopal church seems to be on a mission to purge it's conservative members.

Here's some numbers I found after a bit of searching.

Quote:

First printed in The Church of England Newspaper.

A statistical analysis presented to the Executive Council of the Episcopal Church on 27 January 2012 reports the American church has experience a traumatic decline in all quantifiable areas of church life over the past decade.

In their 42-page PowerPoint presentation to the Executive Council, Dr. C. Kirk Hadaway and Dr. Matthew Price noted that to “get a broad-based sense of congregational vitality, we have used a number of measurements including church school enrollment, marriages, funerals, child baptisms, adult baptisms, and confirmations. These speak to a parish’s integration in the community and the possibility for future growth.”

Church school enrollment has declined by 33 per cent.
The number of marriages performed declined by 41 per cent.
The number of burials fell by 21 per cent.
The number of child baptisms declined by 36 per cent.
The number of adult baptisms declined by 40 per cent.
The number of confirmations declined by 32 per cent.

“While these numbers may not capture the totality of what is happening in the Church, we do not have a measure that is moving in a positive direction,” the church’s statisticians reported.

In the six years following the consecration of Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire, from 2004 to 2010, the Episcopal Church’s average Sunday attendance fell by 17 per cent and its total membership declined by 13 per cent. Of those still in the Episcopal Church as of 2010, 30 per cent were over the age of 65, where as those over 65 comprise only 13 per cent of the total U.S. population.

In addition to the church’s sharp decline in its pastoral health, the number of churches reporting financial difficulties rose sharply such that by 2010 72 per cent of congregations reported they were in “financial stress”.

Conor7 · #30 Jun 21, '12, 5:12 pm

I don't doubt that these numbers are correct, but what would be more interesting,
Tyuiop411, is to know how these numbers compare to other mainline churches. Or even better, is there a report that details how many Episcopalians left due to current controversies?

Unlike the RCC in the US, the Episcopal Church is primarily white and we haven't experienced the same immigrant influx. I suppose we may still get the Canadians yet.