All Catholics should be vegan: St Francis & veganism

StellaMaris3 · #1 Jun 27, '11, 5:50 am

Hello,

I have always been drawn to St Francis, as he is the Patron Saint of the environment (which includes the animal kingdom). As a Catholic vegan, I am on a mission to champion veganism as the only true Catholic diet that is ethical and "good"as noted in genesis and also evidenced by Jesus' example ("I desire MERCY not sacrifice"). Furthermore, the disciples and early Christians were all veg*ns.

Animal cruelty and torture is unconscionable and evil. Animals want to live! Humans have no God-given right to hurt an animal. In the 10 Commandments, God declared, "Thou Shalt Not Kill"! He did not include an asterisk stating that lambs, chickens and days old calves were exempt. The horror must stop!!! The time is well overdue to stop the deprave meat industry and dairy industry. Moreover, meat and dairy cause acidosis and are scientifically known to cause disease, diabetes and cancer. They are also poisonous, as they're laden with toxins, antibiotics, steroids, heavy metals, hormones and parasites. In contrast, a healthy, organic, non-GM, mostly raw vegan diet is alkaline and supports good health.

Does anyone know what percentage of Franciscans are vegan/ vegetarian? As it would seem logical that they should be leading this mission on behalf of Catholic supported animal welfare and environmentalism.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

Marauder · #2 Jun 27, '11, 6:27 am

I am sorry to say but your take on Bible history and St. Francis seem to be influenced by your passion. The Bible does not say that the "disciples and early Christians were all veg*ns." In fact it talks about them eating fish and partaking in the Passover. It can be argued through non-biblical sources that John the Baptist and other Eseans may have not eaten meat, but nothing says that extended to the other disciples.

As for St. Francis, nothing in the history shows that St. Francis practiced vegatarianism or veganism or requested his followers to do the same. St. Francis himself ate very little of anything, except when he felt that his example of not eating was causing others to not eat enough hurting their prayer life.

St. Francis cared for all living creatures but not to the extreme that many people with different agendas seem to promote it today.

As far as the percentages of Franciscans that may be vegan or vegetarians, I haven't heard anyone ever try to take those numbers.

Pax et bonum,
Jim

StellaMaris3 · #3 Jun 27, '11, 8:32 am

Thanks for your reply Jim

!!

However, Biblical and historical evidence clearly show that Jesus and the early Christians and Church Fathers were veg*ns. In fact, St Jerome, the Catholic writer of our first Bible i.e. Vulgate, was a veg*n!

Here are some more evidences:

1. There was no lamb as the Last Supper (the Passover meal), only bread and wine. This is not something a Jewish person would tolerate.

2. Jesus freed the animals in the Temple which really operated as a butchery, declaring, "I desire MERCY not sacrifice". He was taken into custody soon after and in that sense can be considered an animal liberator.

3. All the apostles were veg*n including Paul (he converted later).

4. It was only in the 300s AD that Constantine allowed meat eating in his "Christian kingdom". Before this time, Christians were veg*ns.

For example, historically cited early Christian veg*ns include:

- The Ebionites
- Clement of Alexandria
- Origen
- Tertullian
- Hieronymus
- Boniface
- St. Jerome
- John Chrysostom
- Basil the Great.

e.g. . Clement wrote, "It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh".

5. Also, another early Christian document, Clementine Homiles (a second-century work based on the teachings of St. Peter) states: (Homily XII) "The unnatural eating of flesh meats is as polluting as the heathen worship of devils, with its sacrifices and its impure feasts, through participation in it a man becomes a fellow eater with devils".

6. In some early church writings, Matthew, Peter and James were cited as all veg*n. i.e. The apostle Matthew partook of seeds and nuts and vegetables without flesh.

7. Clement of Alexandria (The Instructor, book 2, chapter 1): Peter said, "I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables."

8. Clement of Alexandria stated that sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh.

9. James was said to be holy from his mothers womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. Hegesippus, quoted in The Church History of Eusebius, book 2, chapter 23.

10. NOWHERE in the New Testament is Jesus depicted as eating flesh.

11. Saint Augustine stated: Jacobus lived of seeds and vegetables and did not accept meat or wine.

12. Saint Basil stated: The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise, no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat.

13: Saint Jerome stated: The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat.

14. St Francis of Assisi stated: All things of creation are children of the Father and thus brothers of man, God wants us to help animals, if they need help. Every creature in distress has the same right to be protected.

There's much more evidence which I can post later. As you can see, veg*nism is clearly a Catholic Tradition and ALL CATHOLICS SHOULD BE VEGAN!!! Please help to stop animal suffering and stop animal torture by becoming a veg*n. Animals want to live for their own reasons. If we are kind to animals, then we will be kind to humanity too : ) The prophet Isaiah foretold that this is God's Divine Will: a vegan Heaven on earth.

Dominus vobis,
StellaMaris3

Marauder · #4 Jun 27, '11, 10:31 am

I can see you just want to have an arguement and try to justify your position. On just the topic of Lamb not being at the Last Supper, you are repeating a modern fallacy. I am not going to get into a tt for tat arguement with you. Please read the following link on whether there was Lamb at the last supper, written by "three Catholic Ph.D.s who are professors of Scripture and Theology"

Link

As for your quote from St. Francis. Nothing in it says he was a vegatarian or vegan. As I said before, many in today's world try to twist St. Francis' ideals to fit whatever their modern agenda is. St. Francis was about worshipping God and loving his beloved Mary above all else. He loved nature and animals as manifestations of God in the world but he at no time insisted on anyone refrain from eating animals. If he had an issue with it, it would be in the Rule for the Franciscan Order. No such Rule exists. St. Francis taught to respect animals, but he did not teach vegatarianism, veganism or anything else resembling that.

The following comes directly from the EWTN site (as posted on Zenit).

Quote:

—Q: There are those who say St. Francis was vegetarian.

—Father Iammarrone: Whoever says this, has read nothing of St. Francis’ life. In early biographies one reads that St. Francis said that if Christmas was on a Friday, the friars should be given a double ration of meat, and animals a double ration of hay, out of love for the Lord, who was born for us.

Link

StellaMaris3 · #5 Jun 30, '11, 10:11 am

Hi Marauder,

You are ABSOLUTELY wrong -- biblically, morally, ethically and by apostolic traditional standards!!!

In fact Marauder, eating meat IS the modern and ancient (evil) fallacy!

One which contravenes Jesus' strong call for MERCY in the temple/ butchery! A call which brought him into custody leading to his Sacrifice on the Cross. In this way, you are COMPLETELY mistaken. Jesus Christ IS not only our savior, he is an animal liberator. And the prophet Isaiah, apostolic tradition and early Christian testimonies support this assertion.

***Remember, it was only Constantine that allowed meat eating in his new Christian kingdom in the 300s (and not the Christians themselves). Without a doubt, Jesus, the apostles (NOTE: Paul converted later) and the first Christians were ALL vegan/ possibly vegetarian too.***

Thus, the Holy Catholic Church's Magisterium will undoubtedly recognize this Biblical & Apostolic & Catholic TRUTH very soon I'm sure.

How could they not??? They can't turn their back on God's Will as the Prophet Isaiah expounded in his vision of a vegan kingdom on earth!!!

No, the Catholic Church never changes it's doctrines, but it does refine it as it elucidates the Truth more fully. And this it will re veganism.

As prophetically announced by Isaiah, the Catholic Church is destined to advocate vegansim and reject animal cruelty, torture and barbarity in the name of gluttony and evil. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, not the Good Butcher!!! He calls for Mercy, Love & Care for his beloved creation -- not suffering, terror and torture at the hands of cruel, deprave, evil humanity.

Let us ALL be Merciful to animals! GO VEGAN!!!

It's also healthy for you

Indeed, meat and dairy are loaded with pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, heavy metals, putrefaction etc. It is closely linked with cancer, heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses. Why on earth would you eat it???

Marauder, Love God's creation and Love your body too. GO VEGAN & REJOICE!!

As Saint Jerome, the writer of the first Catholic Latin Bible (the Vulgate) so eloquently stated:

"The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat".

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

StellaMaris3 · #6 Jun 30, '11, 10:38 am

PS

As for the quote re St Francis...I have not read that quote. But he is a saint not an apostolic Church Father in any case. Thus, it does not detract from the validity of veganism as a Traditional Catholic practice.

However, I will do more research to check if that quote is indeed accurate. If it is accurate, it only means that he allowed other monks to eat flesh, but he himself, being a saint, most probably abstained and was a vegan/ vegetarian.

Marauder · #7 Jul 1, '11, 5:51 am

It is admirable that you have decided to give up eating meat, but to try to justify your position with the Bible and St. Francis does not hold up except if you selectively read history.

Pure and simple, most of Jesus' disciples were fisherman. The miracle of loaves and fishes involved eating fish. The Bible talks about nothing that enters the mouth can profane the body, only those things that come out of it. Nothing except modern day invention has ever said that the Passover meals that Jesus ate did not include actual lamb, as is the custom now and in the past in Jewish households.

As for St. Francis, I already showed the quote that talked about every friar being given extra portions of meat on Christmas Friday's. Every year early Franciscan as rent gave a basket of fish to the Benedictines that owned the place the St. Francis and his brothers were staying. That doesn't sound like an agreement that the founder of a "fraternity" would make if they detested killing of fish for food. St. Francis and his brothers begged for their food, he and his brother would eat whatever was offered to them.

Pure and simple, have there been vegetarian saints, yes. Have there been non-vegetarian saints, yes. It is a personal choice, pure and simple. Whether you make the choice for health reasons or personal reasons is up to you, but please don't try to alter history to justify your position.

P.S. Could you please provide the document that this quote from St. Jerome supposedly came from. I have been searching for it and the only pages I can find it on seem to be vegetarian web pages. I would like to see this supposed quote in context since I have found quotes by St. Jermoe that talk about making sure you give guests meat and things like that. Most of the quotes I see from him about meat only deal with him talking about fasting in general.

StellaMaris3 · #8 Jul 2, '11, 2:23 am

Hi Marauder,

Thank you for your reply.

As you know, Christ calls for us to be perfect like he is perfect. And he was a vegan. Just as the early Jewish-Christians were, and early Church Fathers.

Re the fisherman argument: please note the apostles were fisherman before they knew Christ, but they all forsook that occupation on Jesus' order to follow him to be fishers of humanity! And they all became VEGAN! Even Paul later converted to being a vegan. So you can't use that argument to justify eating animal flesh. Thus they all renounced being fishermen of fish, and instead became fishermen of humanity!!!

As for St Francis, perhaps I should look for leadership on this issue from another order. I love St Francis, but if the Franciscans don't want to champion this cause then I'll seek another Catholic vegan order (which there are many) to help advocate this Holy mission.

As for the loaves and "fish" miracle.

No. 1 Remember, Jesus didn't eat the "fish".
No. 2 In other testimonies, it only records "loaves of bread" not fish
No. 3 Some scholars suggest the term fish was symbolic of "Christ".

Ergo, whatever the case might be, the fact is Christ was never recorded as eating meat/ fish for he was a vegan.

Re the bible quote of St Peter's dream: it appears you don't know the real meaning of this quote, because St Peter's dream referred to his conversion of perceiving gentiles "unclean" (from a Jewish perspective), and God showing him that this was wrong. The gentiles despite not being Jews or circumcised, were indeed part of God's plans for redemption. Thus, they were not "unclean" as Jews traditionally thought. Instead, the "unclean" animals in the dream were used symbolically to denote the gentile, as it was proper to admit them into Jesus' plan for Salvation. This is a common fact. Research it.

Re the lamb at Passover: never is Jesus depicted as eating flesh or lamb in the Bible. NEVER. Not even once. In fact, at the last supper (Passover), there is no lamb!! Only bread & wine.

***Veganism is not just a conscionable choice, but one that is congruent with founding Catholic Tradition, the Bible & the Church Fathers.***

HURTING ANIMALS & KILLING ANIMALS IS NOT A "PERSONAL" CHOICE. IT IS A HEINOUS SIN. TO BE A CATHOLIC/ CHRISTIAN, YOU MUST LEAD A VEGAN LIFE.

And it's not hard, really!! Vegan cuisine is delicious and there are loads of vegan meat replacements that taste just like meat for those who like the taste. I've served vegan dishes with vegan meat replacements to non-vegan friends and they are shocked when I tell them it's not meat, but a vegan meat replacement! Try it! You can get them at the supermarket. God will love you for it and so will your heart and intestines!

You can even buy vegan chicken schnitzel, vegan roast chicken, vegan/ vegetarian bacon, vegan sausages, vegan hamburgers, vegan meat patties, or try adding mixed nuts like brazil/ pistachio/ peanuts/ macadamia/, seeds, there's also vegan hot dogs etc and you can eat tempeh, quinoa, peas, vegan pasta mince, vegan mexican/ thai/ indian dishes, rice dishes, pasta dishes, rissoto, vegan lasagna, vegan soy cheese, coconut milk, coconut water, fresh juices, wheatgrass shots, almond milk, rice milk, on rare occasions soy milk, spices, lentils, beans, breads, chocolate, herbs, chickpeas, avocado, muesli, salads, berries, apples, watermelon, fruits, juices, vegetables like, cos lettuce, alfalfa sprouts, fresh lemon juice, fresh lime potatoes, tomatoes, asparagus, corn, olives, sundried tomatoes, carrots etc homemade dips, humus, popcorn etc...it's literally endless what you can eat as a Vegan and it's delicious and healthy!! (And if you become a vegetarian instead of a vegan (which I don't encourage you do as dairy is very bad for your health & linked with the vile meat industry)....but if you do choose to go vegetarian, you can include vegetarian cheeses and freerange eggs to your diet too).

***Lastly, if you go mostly raw vegan, organic and stop drinking toxic tap water and drink non-fluoride/ non-chlorinated mineral/ spring water, then you really boost your health!!***

Great health websites for more info include:

www.drmcdougall.com
www.balance-ph-diet.com/acidosis_symptom.html
www.naturalnews.com
www.vegsource.com
www.drfuhrman.com
www.ravediet.com

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

PS I will find you the source for St Jerome ASAP.

StellaMaris3 · #9 Jul 2, '11, 2:58 am

Other quotes:

Vegan/ vegetarianism: Original Ideal and Ultimate Hope

And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food".
Genesis 1:29-30

Then I will make a covenant on behalf of Israel with the wild beasts, the birds of the air, and the things that creep on the earth, and I will break bow and sword and weapon of war and sweep them off the earth so that all living creatures may lie down without fear.
Hosea 2:18

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
And the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall feed;
Their young shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The suckling child shall play over the hole of the asp,
And the weaned child shall put his hand on the adders den.
They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain;
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 11:6-9

He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.
Revelations 21:4

God Cares About Animals
The Lord is good to all men, and his tender care rests upon all his creatures.
Psalms 145:9

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow and reap and store in barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Matthew 6:26

God Wants Us To Care About Animals

A righteous man cares for his beast.
Proverbs 12:10

When you see the *** of someone who hates you lying helpless under its load, however unwilling you may be to help it, you must give him a hand with it.
Exodus 23:5

When you see your fellow countrymans *** or ox lying on the road, do not ignore it; you must help him to lift it to its feet again.
Deuteronomy 22:4

He who slaughters an ox is like him who kills a man.
Isaiah 66:3

Animal Sacrifices Are Rejected by God
The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
The offer of your gifts is useless, the reek of sacrifice is abhorrent to me.
Isaiah 1:11-12

There is blood on your hands; wash yourselves and be clean.
Isaiah 1:16

For a desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

If you had known what that text means, "I require mercy, not sacrifice", you would not have condemned the innocent.
Matthew 12:7

Sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh.
Clement of Alexandria

Other Christian Testimony
The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat.
St Jerome

The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise there was no wine, no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat.
St Basil

All things of creation are children of the Father and thus brothers of man ... God wants us to help animals, if they need help. Every creature in distress has the same right to be protected.
St Francis of Assisi

Let no one regard as light the burden of his responsibility. While so much ill-treatment of animals goes on, while the moans of thirsty animals in railway trucks sound unheard, while so much brutality prevails in our slaughterhouses ... we all bear guilt. Everything that lives has value as a living thing, as one of the manifestations of the mystery that is life.
Albert Schweitzer (not Catholic but a Christian).

StellaMaris3 · #10 Jul 2, '11, 8:16 am

PS
RE: Mark:7:1-23,

Many Bible scholars recognize the error of interpreting this passage to mean an abrogation of the laws of clean and unclean meats.

For example:

No.1 Jesus' encounter with the Pharisees recorded in Mark:7:1-23, did not lead to abrogating the laws of clean and unclean 'meats' revealed in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. i.e. As it's not related to these particular laws.

i.e.

A) Mark:7:19 "Jesus declared all foods 'clean'," i.e. not meat as such. Otherwise, this statement would nullify / contradict his declaration in the Temple/ butchery re Sacrifice/ meat-eating i.e I require MERCY not sacrifice, i.e. don't eat meat, don't hurt animals.

B) In the above Bible passage, the Greek word broma, is used in verse 19, which simply means food. An entirely different Greek word for meat, kreas, is used in the New Testament where meat—animal flesh —is specifically intended.****

No. 2 The real meaning of the text is as shown through reading the previous passages:

i.e. "Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault" (verses 1-2). They asked Jesus, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?" (verse 5).

Thus, the subject is clarified. the passage concerns with eating "with unwashed hands" not meat.

No. 3 And why would scribes and Pharisees be concerned about washing hands? Because the covenant God made with Israel at Mount Sinai was based on many laws and other instructions to ensure ritual purity. Yet, Jewish observance often went beyond these in embracing the "oral law" or "tradition of the elders"—as it was passed on by word of mouth thus consisting of many additional man-made requirements and prohibitions 'tacked' onto God's laws.

Ergo, verses 3-4 of Mark 7 provide a brief explanation of the specific practice the Pharisees and scribes were referring to in this account: "For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders ..."

C) As you can see, no food laws are questioned here. THEREFORE THE TOPIC JESUS WAS RELATING TO WAS RITUAL PURITY AND THE DISCIPLES WERE CRITICIZED FOR NOT ALLOWING THE PROCEDURE OF PROPER CEREMONIAL HAND-WASHING!!!! Mark:7:1-23 HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE VILE PRACTICE OF MEAT EATING.

No. 4 A Jewish New Testament Commentary, further elucidates the true background of verses 2-4: "Mark's explanation of a ... ritual handwashing, in these verses corresponds to the details set forth in Mishna tractate Yadayim [the Mishna is a later written version of the oral tradition]. In the marketplace one may touch ceremonially impure things; the impurity is removed by rinsing up to the wrist. Orthodox Jews today observe [ritual hand-washing] before meals. The rationale for it has nothing to do with hygiene but is based on the idea that 'a man's home is his Temple,' with the dining table his altar, the food his sacrifice and himself the cohen (priest). Since the Tanakh [Old Testament] requires cohanim [priests] to be ceremonially pure before offering sacrifices on the altar, the Oral Torah requires the same before eating a meal" (David Stern, 1995).

Thus, Jesus was decrying the hypocrisy of added "man-made" religious traditions and practices of the day. He was not referring to meat-eating being ok at all. Far from it in fact.

Jesus explained that what defiles a person (according to God) comes not from the outside i.e. by what one puts into his mouth. but from within (verse 15). Jesus states: "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (verses 21-23). See Galatians:5:19-21 for the "works of the flesh." they are contrasted with the "fruit of the Spirit" (verses 22-23). "Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness [and] self-control" are qualities of a spiritually purified heart.

Thus Jesus is simply stating here that any dirt etc that isn't removed through elaborate hand-washing will be purged anyway via the human digestive system...it thus has no bearing on the heart and mind of a person, because spiritual purification involves the heart.

Hope this clarifies the verse for you.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

iloveangels · #11 Dec 12, '11, 3:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by StellaMaris3

Hello,

I have always been drawn to St Francis, as he is the Patron Saint of the environment (which includes the animal kingdom). As a Catholic vegan, I am on a mission to champion veganism as the only true Catholic diet that is ethical and "good"as noted in genesis and also evidenced by Jesus' example ("I desire MERCY not sacrifice"). Furthermore, the disciples and early Christians were all veg*ns.

Animal cruelty and torture is unconscionable and evil. Animals want to live! Humans have no God-given right to hurt an animal. In the 10 Commandments, God declared, "Thou Shalt Not Kill"! He did not include an asterisk stating that lambs, chickens and days old calves were exempt. The horror must stop!!! The time is well overdue to stop the deprave meat industry and dairy industry. Moreover, meat and dairy cause acidosis and are scientifically known to cause disease, diabetes and cancer. They are also poisonous, as they're laden with toxins, antibiotics, steroids, heavy metals, hormones and parasites. In contrast, a healthy, organic, non-GM, mostly raw vegan diet is alkaline and supports good health.

Does anyone know what percentage of Franciscans are vegan/ vegetarian? As it would seem logical that they should be leading this mission on behalf of Catholic supported animal welfare and environmentalism.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

If you want to do this, you certainly can, but trying to get everyone to do it is a little bossy, isn't it?
BTW, are you aware that Christ ate lamb and fish? They were part of the normal diet of those days, and lamb was certainly also part of the passover seder in the time of Christ. I believe it still is.

Marauder · #12 Dec 13, '11, 5:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by iloveangels

If you want to do this, you certainly can, but trying to get everyone to do it is a little bossy, isn't it?
BTW, are you aware that Christ ate lamb and fish? They were part of the normal diet of those days, and lamb was certainly also part of the passover seder in the time of Christ. I believe it still is.

I figured it wasn't worth continuing the discussion any longer with her. It sounded like she wasn't listening to anything being said. Also you may notice that under her username it now says "Banned". Not for anything she did on this page, but she probably won't be back. I thought about deleting this thread but so far have only ever used my "mod" priv in this group to delete advertisements.

iloveangels · #13 Dec 13, '11, 11:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauder

I figured it wasn't worth continuing the discussion any longer with her. It sounded like she wasn't listening to anything being said. Also you may notice that under her username it now says "Banned". Not for anything she did on this page, but she probably won't be back. I thought about deleting this thread but so far have only ever used my "mod" priv in this group to delete advertisements.

Thanks for the heads up, Marauder.

Michael Mayo · #14 Jun 23, '12, 4:05 am

Quite a thread!

I only eat fish. For many reasons my wife and I (even more so for her) avoid animal protein. And we don't miss it at all. We lost weight and our blood analysis is all good. Lot's of soy for the protein & oats for iron.

fatima12 · #15 Feb 23, '13, 12:06 pm

lovely forum, great thread
Saint Francis is my most inspirational Saint.
I was in Assisi some months ago and there was a statue of Saint Francis in a museum enclosed and some doves had managed to get in the museum and had made a nest on Saint Francis folded arms! isnt that amazing? I thought they were part of the statue!. They have water and food placed there for them

I dont eat meat either.

What an amazing Saint.