"Catholic" By title, driving me nuts! - Page 2

JillianRose · #16 Jun 30, '12, 9:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylites

Of course, we only have a third-hand retelling of hearsay rather than any actual rebuttal of the person being paraphrased or taken out of context or being misunderstood. There's a big difference between saying that Scripture contains allegorical stories not to be taken literally, and that it's just "a bunch of stories."

I am just writing the exact word he told our whole school during childrens mass. That is the phrase he uses. But this is not the first time I have heard Catholic say it is just a bunch of stories. Maybe this priest used the wrong phrase. It did not sit right with the congregation and regular priest.

bethanysamuel · #17 Jun 30, '12, 9:56 pm

I think you could set aside 1 minute per day to pray solely for patience. There are so many spiritual difficulties that just need time. I know how frustrated you must be but things will work out for you if you try a little patience and just stick to what you're doing.

JillianRose · #18 Jun 30, '12, 10:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethanysamuel

I think you could set aside 1 minute per day to pray solely for patience. There are so many spiritual difficulties that just need time. I know how frustrated you must be but things will work out for you if you try a little patience and just stick to what you're doing.

Thank you very much. I will pray for patience. I think if I pray for strength I might slap someone. (Just kidding) I am resposible for my family. We need to be examples. I am just floored (not at the ones who just don't understand) but the ones who try to change God and his Church for their own belief system. I am just happy we have a God that always has time for us. It is sad that we can not always say the same.

Iron Donkey · #19 Jun 30, '12, 10:08 pm

Reminds me a lot of a priest's rant that was on newadvent recently: http://reverendknow-it-all.blogspot....1340343440498:

Quote:

Catholic schools, by and large, have become failures themselves. There are some splendid Catholic schools, but in my experience of 40 years in ministry, increasingly, especially in large urban areas, Catholic schools have become inexpensive private schools for middle class people who have little or no interest in the Catholic faith, maintained at great expense by Catholic parishes. Catholic schools are, for the most part, over.

We may have a few parish schools still plugging along, but are they Catholic? It seems that all we have left to us is the threadbare cousin. All our resources and energies go to maintaining the private school in the building next to the church. While the world is starving for Christ, we are giving them bingo and bratwurst, raffles and dinner dances, all to keep the school going.

“But,” I can hear you say, “this is our major form of evangelism!” Aren’t you paying attention? The few kids from our schools who go to church don’t go because the school has converted them. They go because they have parents dedicated enough to bring them every Sunday, even in summer. Even in soccer season. Those kids may end up Catholic, not because they went to our schools and religious education programs, but because their parents were the first and best of teachers. In a recent conversation with a local pastor who runs a school of 250, give or take, I asked how many of his students and their families attend Mass during the summer months. He said, “about thirty of them.”

I have to agree, knowing the students who attended the nearby Catholic school while I attended a nearby public school, I didn't really see the benefit. Not sure how that applies to your situation. Best of luck, in any case.

JillianRose · #20 Jun 30, '12, 10:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylites

Well, you were asking for help, and claimed to not know why you should stay anymore, assuming you meant in the Catholic Church. Maybe the ones you are criticizing are saying the same thing.

I don't understand why you are playing devils advocate. I am asking fellow Catholics how I should handle this. Not to be patronized by someone who is obviously too smart to understand a question of this caliber. I have read your other threads and I don't even know why you care to bother with my question that is a matter of the heart. You are very smart and should understand how I feel since you have the same kind of questions regarding Apologetics and there patience of answering incessant questions by non catholics.

There is a difference between showing people Charity and allowing Ignorance. Once they start speaking false truths of the Church or "Use" our school to do something with their children that they lack as parents, is unacceptable. We are Catholic, We have the Truth and if we doing it in a loving matter We should be proud of that truth. I am sick of being tolerant of non-tolerant people.

Stylites · #21 Jun 30, '12, 10:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianRose

I am just writing the exact word he told our whole school during childrens mass. That is the phrase he uses. But this is not the first time I have heard Catholic say it is just a bunch of stories. Maybe this priest used the wrong phrase. It did not sit right with the congregation and regular priest.

If it were a children's Mass then calling Scriptures 'a bunch of stories' could have been appropriate for their age group, since children enjoy stories and Scriptures are really stories, without any connotation of whether they are make-believe or real-life. A Catholic university professor saying Scriptures are 'a bunch of stories' would be a problem. Maybe invite the priest to come and give his side of the . . . story.

JillianRose · #22 Jun 30, '12, 10:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Donkey

Reminds me a lot of a priest's rant that was on newadvent recently: http://reverendknow-it-all.blogspot....1340343440498:

I have to agree, knowing the students who attended the nearby Catholic school while I attended a nearby public school, I didn't really see the benefit. Not sure how that applies to your situation. Best of luck, in any case.

Thats exactly how I feel. Except in the hood I live in we have rich doctors/lawyers who send their nanny's to parent events at our school.

**JharekCarnelian** · #23 Jun 30, '12, 11:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylites

If it were a children's Mass then calling Scriptures 'a bunch of stories' could have been appropriate for their age group, since children enjoy stories and Scriptures are really stories, without any connotation of whether they are make-believe or real-life. A Catholic university professor saying Scriptures are 'a bunch of stories' would be a problem. Maybe invite the priest to come and give his side of the . . . story.

It might be worth pointing out that the most useful stories and truest one are those which are real. Also, not every part of the Bible needs to be taken literally and in relation to some sections whether Catholics do take them literally or not is a matter they may use some discretion with. The infamous example been of course the opening passages of Genesis which may be regarded as either literal or not so long as one keeps hold of the underlying concepts that the universe is not purely mechanical and has an active creator.

Or to put it another way, just because something is not literally true does not mean it is totally untrue.

Journey322 · #24 Jul 1, '12, 1:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianRose

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by "title" only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don't practice, and told me that you don't need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories

2. Two Lutherans who don't want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don't want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are "hillbilly's". (according to them)

3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don't pray, don't go to church, buy their children what ever they want.

4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don't read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don't know what to do. I feel sad. I can't even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don't know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics..........AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

It sounds as if you are being awfully critical of others because they are at a different place spriritually. Why not focus on serving as a non-judgmental leader or example to those who may be weaker in the faith, rather than a judge?

Journey322 · #25 Jul 1, '12, 1:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianRose

I don't understand why you are playing devils advocate. I am asking fellow Catholics how I should handle this. Not to be patronized by someone who is obviously too smart to understand a question of this caliber. I have read your other threads and I don't even know why you care to bother with my question that is a matter of the heart. You are very smart and should understand how I feel since you have the same kind of questions regarding Apologetics and there patience of answering incessant questions by non catholics.

There is a difference between showing people Charity and allowing Ignorance. Once they start speaking false truths of the Church or "Use" our school to do something with their children that they lack as parents, is unacceptable. We are Catholic, We have the Truth and if we doing it in a loving matter We should be proud of that truth. I am sick of being tolerant of non-tolerant people.

Wow! I didn't think that post was patronizing at all. Besides, when you say you were "asking other Catholics how you should handle this" what do you mean exactly? You can only choose your own behavior and attitude. You can pray, serve as a living example of God's love, compassion, forgiveness, etc. You could also meet with your priest to see if there is somewhere within your parish where you could serve (RCIA or whatever).

I have to say, however, as I did in my previous post...it does sound as if you are being a bit too critical of others who are in a different place spiritually. If you are going to help them, you will have to be able to set that aside.

kmuestwin · #26 Jul 1, '12, 1:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianRose

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by "title" only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don't practice, and told me that you don't need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories

2. Two Lutherans who don't want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don't want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are "hillbilly's". (according to them)

3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don't pray, don't go to church, buy their children what ever they want.

4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don't read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don't know what to do. I feel sad. I can't even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don't know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics..........AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

We are all "Catholic by title" whenever we sin. Everyone falls short.

Praying for these people is the best thing you can do.

drfye · #27 Jul 1, '12, 2:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianRose

.

4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don't read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

I think that is the catagory I mainly fall into which is one of the reasons I joined this forum. I went to a catholic grade school and high school in Ontario, Canada which is different from the US with one of the main reasons being that catholic schools in this province are funded by the government.
here is something i said in a different thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by drfye

wow, thats pretty accurate to my experience in catholic grade school and high scool, I've never even held ,let alone read the catechism before. Outside of a few sunday school clases as a kid when I was going through the sacrements and those high school religion classes I Really didn't / don't know all that much about catholicism. It was only recently now in college at age 21 with some renewed interest in the faith that I learned how to pray the rosary. I ran into a couple people who I knew from high school, we started having a conversation and one them mentioned faith, they were/are under the impression that the church is against evolution and these were people who had gone to a catholic high school( some of whom had gone to the same high school as me). So yes it would seem that , at least in parts of ontario, there is a disconnect between catholic school and catholicism.

my parents are not all that religious so after I had been confirmed going to mass slowly just became non existent ,if it wasn't already by that time. As a teenager it was seen as simply not all that important and in high school religion class simply bacame a credit you had to get. The religion classes themselves for the most part ( at least as i remember them) were really more about morality then theology or church histoy, we opened a bible once in a while and read a couple passages but nothing really indepth. There was one religion teacher I had who taught "world religions" that kind of started to get me more interested in learning about the faith but nothing really came of it until a few years later when i was in college and was doing a course on violence which potrayed the chuch's history in my country in not exactly the best light, which again got me curious........long story short a few month ago i started seeing videos on youtube and other sites of catholic answers live which led me to catholic answes.com, videos of Fr.Baron, and eventually this forum.

I think at the end of the day a lot if not most of the knowlege kids have of the faith will be because of the parents and how much the parents know about it.

**JRKH** · #28 Jul 1, '12, 4:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incomplete

You can and should be proud, even if others don't agree with you.

While I do not disagree with the sentiment behind this statement, it seems that "proud" might not be the best word to use...since "Pride" is one of the capital sins.
Perhaps a better "deeply and truly humbled" to be a Catholic.
Just a thought...

Quote:

The priest you mentioned, is he part of that school? If the teaching isn't solidly Catholic, you should consider sending your kids elsewhere.

Complete agreement here. just because it says it's "Catholic" does not mean it's teaching is orthodox.

Peace
James

**JRKH** · #29 Jul 1, '12, 5:01 am

Dear one,
Let us begin at Love which must be the touchstone of our faith.
Each person is at a different place on their journey. Some may not even be on the journey yet. They may simply be sitting on the sidelines. I agree that it is difficult and discouraging when one hears such things as you describe, but our reaction to such things can have profound effect on how we are perceived by others and consequently how effective we can be in helping them.

God tells us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. He also tells us to not permit our peace to be disturbed by various worries or the actions or responses of others. We are to trust Him who is in charge.
Most people do not like to be told they are wrong. They become very defensive and understanding ceases at that point. Instead of listening to your input they immediately begin to prepare a defensive response as to why you are wrong...OR they simply end any conversation at all. This is counterproductive to what you wish to achieve.
So my suggestion is that you begin by praying to God for insight on how to charitably respond to people in order to open up understanding.

As an example...Someone says that the Bible is a "bunch of stories"...Well in truth it is, but then most books are "just a bunch of stories"...Even History books. The important thing is what do these "stories contain" what lessons are we to derive, what insights do they hold for knowing how to live a life pleasing to God...
So - if someone says "it's just a bunch of stories" instead of responding "your wrong!!!" (which is too often my error

), try to develop a response that begins with "Yes, there are a lot of stories in the bible" (a positive that gives then and their position credit and intelligence). Then go on, "But there is also a lot of history too. And most importantly there is great moral lessons from the greatest teacher the world has ever known, God Himself incarnate in Jesus Christ."...
This way you tell them that you accept them as equals...intelligent and thoughtful people. Then you gently challenge them - sort of like Jesus did with the "rich young man" who asked what he needed to do to be saved...(Matthew 19:16-22)
Most importantly of all, you are called upon to be an example. None can effectively teach unless they are examples of that which they speak. So learn all that you can, but also pray to God to aid you in developing within yourself those virtues that will allow you to draw people toward Him - even if you do not say a single word.

On another note...You, and several others, have mentioned the catechism and the numbers of parents who have no idea what it contains. In fairness it should be noted that the schools went for some period of time without a "catechism" in use. The Baltimore Catechism remained the "official" one but after Vat II, for whatever reason, the use of it dropped off - especially for the older children. Our current Catechism has not been available all that long and I don't know if or how many schools use it, or texts based on it. So it does not surprise me that so many adults have either never read it.

Peace
James

Seeker1961 · #30 Jul 1, '12, 5:36 am

Our local Catholic school was very rigorous and orthodox, but we still had parents who were not as committed to the faith, which led to children who were not as committed to it. The school was academically superior to the local public schools, and it was the era of school busing so many parents sent their kids to the Catholic school to keep from having them sent on an hour or more long bus ride each way to integrate the inner city schools.

The point here is-people send their children to Catholic schools for a variety of reasons-but for those who are not as committed, a good example can go a LONG way. The real trick in evangelism is to show people that you have something that they don't have, and that they want. Leading people to Jesus means that no matter what we personally think of their actions we have to show them that Jesus loves them as they are, but He loves them too much to leave them that way. We all have to learn the best way to do that.