Society of Friends

[Sam_777]

Originally Posted by cathoichelp

Your faith is based on belief in miracles?

Which one? I have two , Islam is no, and yes for Christianity........

[Credo ergo sum]

You live in Saudi-Arabia? Well, that is an inconvenient place to become Christian.

[Alan55]

You wouldn't expect to find a lot of Quakers on "catholic.com." They tend not to engage in a lot of debate and disputation. And they're not Catholic -- perhaps the least "catholic" of all the Christian denominations in terms of hierarchy, liturgy, sacraments, etc., etc.

[cathoichelp]

Thanks I didn't think so.

[smkessl1978]

Greetings All,

I am a Quaker and would be happy to answer any questions you all may have. I can tell you as a general matter, in response to an earlier post stating that Quakers are the least like Catholocism of all of the demoninations, I disagree.

Because Quakers believe that the real, actual presence of God is with us at meetings, this places us quite similar to Catholics and very different from the other denominations. Much like the Catholic belief in the real presence contained in the Eucharist, Quakers are one of the only other religions to believe in the real presence at our meetings. I can tell you from personal experience, the presence is very real.

When I attend Mass with friends, I get the same feeling, and can feel the true presence of God in the Eucharist. This is just further proof that if we stop and remain still and silent, it is easy to see that we all worship the same beautiful, loving God, even though we might see Him through different lenses at times.

In Peace and Love,

Steve

[Publisher]

Originally Posted by cathoichelp

Does anyone else on this board belong to the Religious Society of Friends?
Just curious!

I do...for most of my life...I was convinced at 19 years of age....I'm now 58.

[Candescent]

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Quakers are a Christian sect, acceptance of the principles underlying the society of friends is not based on miracles occurring in the 17th century. I think you need to research this group in more detail to thoroughly understand them. I have a great deal of respect for the Quakers who saved thousands of lives in my own country at extreme risk to their own live in many cases.

You seem to have a thorough knowledge of the famine, are there any books that you would recommend on this subject?

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by smkessl1978

Greetings All,

I am a Quaker and would be happy to answer any questions you all may have. I can tell you as a general matter, in response to an earlier post stating that Quakers are the least like Catholocism of all of the demoninations, I disagree.

Because Quakers believe that the real, actual presence of God is with us at meetings, this places us quite similar to Catholics and very different from the other denominations. Much like the Catholic belief in the real presence contained in the Eucharist, Quakers are one of the only other religions to believe in the real presence at our meetings. I can tell you from personal experience, the presence is very real.

When I attend Mass with friends, I get the same feeling, and can feel the true presence of God in the Eucharist. This is just further proof that if we stop and remain still and silent, it is easy to see that we all worship the same beautiful, loving God, even though we might see Him through different lenses at times.

In Peace and Love,

Steve

Hi Steve and welcome to CAF. I've corresponded with my friend Publisher who has always been so kind in answering questions so either one of you can take this one. But since you're new and in your very first sentence said you would be happy to answer questions about the Society of Friends, I'll address this one to you.

Do Quakers believe the real, actual, physical presence of God in body and blood is present as Catholics? Or as I believe Lutherans do. And as I believe Episcopalians officially do. Or are you speaking of His real spiritual presence? Or do you mean His body is present since all of you are part of His body? Or something else? Thanks so much. God bless you and peace be with you.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by TypesAndShadows

Mmm, in my experience, and from history, Quakers seem to have a very high rate of taking the Gospel seriously and living it. There's a reason people trusted food produced and sold by Quakers, before we had strict regulations on safety and quality. There's a reason people still feel so positively toward the Fry's and Cadbury's and Rowntree's brands, even though they've all been bought out by multinationals now: excellent people to work for.

I would be very surprised to see a Quaker wander into a thread on a message board about whether there were any other contributors who were Catholic, and start criticising Catholics. I am sadly resigned to see a Catholic wander into a thread on a message board about whether there were any other contributors who were Quaker, and start criticising Quakers.

Obviously we don't think they have the fullness of the truth, but Quakers usually have actually spent quite a while deciding what they believe and why, and developing their spirituality. If you want to ask what they believe and why, then you are free to start a thread asking that. I expect there will be some Quakers on here who would be glad to answer such questions, in an appropriate thread. But ambushing Quakers simply for saying they are Quaker is not Christlike.

Amen. Nor do I necessarily believe would be "ambushing" others Christians for that matter. God bless and peace.

[Vouthon]

George Fox, the founder of the Society of Friends (or Quakerism), was a Christian mystic of the highest order and an accomplished contemplative in the tradition of the mystics preceding him both Catholic (ie the Fathers, Bernard of Clairvaux, Eckhart and the Rhineland mystics, Ruysbroeck, the Franciscans etc.) and Protestant (ie Jacob Boehme). He followed in this tradition and yet adapted it and transformed it to fit the situation which he found himself in during the 17th century, bewildered by an array of divided churches which he believed were obsessed with ritualism and ultimately were corrupt. He thus founded his own community after a spiritual experience of Christ after reading the Bible, based upon the "Inner Light" of the Lord.

He was a fascinating man and Quakers are wonderful people who follow a religious tradition which has much in common with our dear Catholic mystics.

The key difference between a Quaker and a Catholic is that Quakers do not believe, as far as I am aware, in the necessity of actual water baptism or any other outward sacraments. Nevertheless, given their obvious Christian virtues, I am willing to believe that many of them will have (from the Catholic perspective) baptism by implicit desire given their love for God above all things and adherence to his will as known to the dictates of their conscience.

The great Quaker mystic John Woolman was an early abolitionist (opponent of slavery). There are Orthodox Quakers and more liberal ones.

[Publisher]

Originally Posted by Vouthon

George Fox, the founder of the Society of Friends (or Quakerism), was a Christian mystic of the highest order and an accomplished contemplative in the tradition of the mystics preceding him both Catholic (ie the Fathers, Bernard of Clairvaux, Eckhart and the Rhineland mystics, Ruysbroeck, the Franciscans etc.) and Protestant (ie Jacob Boehme). He followed in this tradition and yet adapted it and transformed it to fit the situation which he found himself in during the 17th century, bewildered by an array of divided churches which he believed were obsessed with ritualism and ultimately were corrupt. He thus founded his own community after a spiritual experience of Christ after reading the Bible, based upon the "Inner Light" of the Lord.

He was a fascinating man and Quakers are wonderful people who follow a religious tradition which has much in common with our dear Catholic mystics.

The key difference between a Quaker and a Catholic is that Quakers do not believe, as far as I am aware, in the necessity of actual water baptism or any other outward sacraments. Nevertheless, given their obvious Christian virtues, I am willing to believe that many of them will have (from the Catholic perspective) baptism by implicit desire given their love for God above all things and adherence to his will as known to the dictates of their conscience.

The great Quaker mystic John Woolman was an early abolitionist (opponent of slavery). There are Orthodox Quakers and more liberal ones.

Most Friends do not practice the outward ordinances. There is nothing wrong with practicing them.....some Friends of the "evangelical" variety will baptize and participate in the Lord's Supper if members of their congregation request it. One of the reasons the outward ordinances/sacraments are not practiced is that by engaging in them, one may not be changed by them.

So many undergo water baptism, yet "live like the devil"....others partake in the eucharist believing they "receive" Christ literally.....yet while believing they receive him, their lives remain the same. Friends believe the One Baptism that truly changes and cleanses us is inward with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Christ Himself is our Baptizer, and no one filled and cleansed by His Holy Spirit can...nor will...remain the same.

So to, we believe He is Truly Among us on First Day as we commune with the Risen Christ....Presence in the Midst.

Friend Matt asked if we believe He is present as Catholics and Lutherans believe...while we believe He is truly present among us, since we have no bread or wine to have confected into His body and blood, we cannot say He is present in that way....but as we join together in communion with Him, He is Truly Present among His People. His words are recorded to have been "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in their midst."

"Christ is come to teach his people himself" Is He present in bread and wine among us...no because there is no bread or wine present, but He is Truly Present among us none the less, because He said He would be, when we gather in His name.

The "proof" of His Presence is not in bread and wine, but in the People who experience His Presence, experience His Cleansing Baptism, experience His Touch on our lives. He is the Presence in the Midst, There is painting by Doyle Penrose, which embodies the belief of Friends we experience in Meeting.....I'd post it here...but I'm not too computer savy.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Publisher

Most Friends do not practice the outward ordinances. There is nothing wrong with practicing them.....some Friends of the "evangelical" variety will baptize and participate in the Lord's Supper if members of their congregation request it. One of the reasons the outward ordinances/sacraments are not practiced is that by engaging in them, one may not be changed by them.

So many undergo water baptism, yet "live like the devil"....others partake in the eucharist believing they "receive" Christ literally.....yet while believing they receive him, their lives remain the same. Friends believe the One Baptism that truly changes and cleanses us is inward with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Christ Himself is our Baptizer, and no one filled and cleansed by His Holy Spirit can...nor will...remain the same.

So to, we believe He is Truly Among us on First Day as we commune with the Risen Christ....Presence in the Midst.

Friend Matt asked if we believe He is present as Catholics and Lutherans believe...while we believe He is truly present among us, since we have no bread or wine to have confected into His body and blood, we cannot say He is present in that way....but as we join together in communion with Him, He is Truly Present among His People. His words are recorded to have been "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in their midst."

"Christ is come to teach his people himself" Is He present in bread and wine among us...no because there is no bread or wine present, but He is Truly Present among us none the less, because He said He would be, when we gather in His name.

The "proof" of His Presence is not in bread and wine, but in the People who experience His Presence, experience His Cleansing Baptism, experience His Touch on our lives. He is the Presence in the Midst, There is painting by Doyle Penrose, which embodies the belief of Friends we experience in Meeting.....I'd post it here...but I'm not too computer savy.

Thank you Publisher. I believe too where two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst. Friend, peace be with you.

[smkessl1978]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Hi Steve and welcome to CAF. I've corresponded with my friend Publisher who has always been so kind in answering questions so either one of you can take this one. But since you're new and in your very first sentence said you would be happy to answer questions about the Society of Friends, I'll address this one to you.

Do Quakers believe the real, actual, physical presence of God in body and blood is present as Catholics? Or as I believe Lutherans do. And as I believe Episcopalians officially do. Or are you speaking of His real spiritual presence? Or do you mean His body is present since all of you are part of His body? Or something else? Thanks so much. God bless you and peace be with you.

I am happy to answer. Most Quakers believe that when two or more people come together in silent worship, we directly experience that of God, which dwells inside everyone. This concept is called the Inner Light or sometimes the Light of Christ or Inner Christ (if you take a more Christian view of things). It is a belief that the congregrants themselves bring God with them to Meeting, in a sense, and that through silent worship, if we listen carefully enough, we can take direction from from God himself. There is no specific requirement that a Quaker believe in the Divinity of Christ. Many Quakers, myself included, regard Jesus as a teacher and perhaps God's most perfect example of how to live one's life here on Earth. There is generally a huge emphasis on social justice and charity, as a result of such beliefs. It's true, if you listen carefully enough, God will lead you to do all kinds of nice things for people and for the world.

In Love and Peace,

Steve

[Mystophilus]

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

It should be noted that they NEVER attempted to prosleytise or convert Catholics as a condition of giving relief as certain groups did.

Souperism, a very clear historical example of just how atrocious we can be to one another in the name of God.

[smkessl1978]

Not only do Quakers not proselytize to other religious groups, there are many examples of how the Quakers have helped wayward Catholics to return to the Church. Here is just one published example:

Leadings: A Catholic Journey Through Quakerism by Irene Lape.

This is an excellent book for those Catholics interested in learning about Quakerism.

In Peace,

Steve