SSPX not likely to 'come home'

[OurBeloved]

Originally Posted by OraLabora

Unprecedented? Two words: Schism, and Reformation.

How is that even a precedent? In the Schism and Reformation, the wrong doers were promptly pointed out and excommunicated. No one was scandalized in that sense because you knew who to trust.

Right now, apart from the Pope, no one else can really be trusted because the Church is not actively pointing out or correcting wrong doers among its clergy or those with authority. THAT is a big problem.

It is one thing to let a student's mistake slide by. But it is an entirely grave issue when you let a teacher's mistake slide. One teacher reaches many students. If the teacher is in error, then the students are in error. Changing the teacher after a long time might not even work because the errors of the previous teacher has already become ingrained.

In short, you do not seem to understand the gravity between a parishioner dissenting and being left alone vs. a person with authority in the church dissenting and being left without warning or action.

[Portrait]

Originally Posted by OraLabora

Unprecedented? Two words: Schism, and Reformation.

Dear OraLabora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

Indeed, dear friend, there have been turbulent periods in times past, but the Church addressed them and dealt with them effectively. This is clearly not happening at the present time and thus multitudes of dissidents, both clergy and laity, are not disciplined, rebuked or excommunicated. This is why the present crisis is unprecedented.

At one time, dear friend, the Church and its leaders were strong and whilst some may have hated the Church, many admired it. It is still disliked by many outside of its bosom, but it is no longer admired as it once was. Cherie Blair (a professing Catholic and wife of the former UK Prime Minister) said that she did not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibilty of the pope. Now she would never have said such an unorthodox thing forty years ago, for had she done so, she would not have been considered a Catholic.

Surely the monumental failure of the contemporary Church is its inablility to admonish and condemn. Alas, it is common knowledge that many liberal bishops have been appointed and this has given strength to liberal Bishops' Conferences, which are extremely influential in selecting future bishops and so it goes on. These liberal bishops never tire of telling us that there is no crisis within Holy Mother Church, notwithstanding all the evidence against such a claim.

All the efforts to renew the Church in recent decades have proved fruitless. There may have been many false initiatives and misguided attempts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. We have had pastoral centres, retreat houses, spiritual centres etc, but all are only vain efforts and substitutes for authentic renewal. For example, here in the UK (Birmingham) a few years back there was this big rallying call to the youth, a 24 hour programme. We were informed that there were 'workshops' (God spare us from them); theatre productions - "Find it, Wear it, Like it" - and more; speed dating with friends first, live bands, nightlife! etc. etc. However, if these young people are not saying their prayers and keeping God's Commandments, all these worldly gimmicks are a sheer waste of time. The real tools for renewal are Holy Mass and the Rosary. Look, dear friend, if the youth have no interest in the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary, then all their efforts are doomed and there will not be growth in holiness and a mind fixed upon heavenly things (Col 3: 2). On the contrary, a compromising love of the world will remain and desire to live the faith in accordance with the prevailing decadent culture, which will sadly become their guide and not the good and ennobling standards of our most holy faith.

As Catholics we belong to the one true Church but many, I fear, are ashamed to profess or live the faith of that Church, including living up to its arduous requirements. Some years ago I remember watching Jon Snow, the ITN Channel 4 News Anchor, interview some young Muslim girls. They were not reticent in telling him what they believed and made it abundantly clear that they had no time for the exposure of putative Christian girls in matters of attire and their use of alcohol and pre-marital carnal relations. They spoke quite frankly with no inhibitions whatsoever. Now what answers would professing Catholic girls give if they were asked about birth prevention and sexual relations before marriage? Much of the problem is down to poor catechesis and the Church must share a great deal of the blame for this, but it all a part of the current crisis. All this would have been unthinkable only 60 years ago. Times have changed and we have certainly moved with them alright, that is for sure.

Thankfully, dear friend, all is not doom and gloom and some American bishops are trying to restore the Church. For example, Bishop Vasa of Baker, Oregon, lays down strict conditions for extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist. Archbishop Burke of St. Louis is another good chap who is strict as regards Catholic doctrine. Some men extol him for his firmness, whilst others object strongly to his views. He said he could deny Holy Communion to John Kerry, the one-time democratic nominee, who supports abortion and he refused to have anything to do with the singer Sheryl Crow, who also supports abortion. Another stalwart US bishop is Robert Finn of Kansas City in Missouri. This dear man changed the diocese from one focussed upon social engagement and lay empowerment to one that is traditionally Catholic. He closed the modernist catechetical and lay empowerment programmes and restored Corpus Christi processions and other traditional Catholic practices. Moreover, he insisted on the faithful transmission of Catholic teaching. The diocese had focussed on social issues and themes and had spent large sums of cash promoting the same. One could say that the diocese had a thorough 'makeover', to use the modern parlance. May it please God to raise up many more solid men like these, especially here in the UK, which is extremely liberal, with the exception of Bishop Patrick O' Donoghue.

Yes, dear friend, it is manifestly obvious that the current crisis is undoubtedly unparalled in the history of the Church.


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

[OurBeloved]

Originally Posted by Portrait

Dear OraLabora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

Indeed, dear friend, there have been turbulent periods in times past, but the Church addressed them and dealt with them effectively. This is clearly not happening at the present time and thus multitudes of dissidents, both clergy and laity, are not disciplined, rebuked or excommunicated. This is why the present crisis is unprecedented.

At one time, dear friend, the Church and its leaders were strong and whilst some may have hated the Church, many admired it. It is still disliked by many outside of its bosom, but it is no longer admired as it once was. Cherie Blair (a professing Catholic and wife of the former UK Prime Minister) said that she did not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibilty of the pope. Now she would never have said such an unorthodox thing forty years ago, for had she done so, she would not have been considered a Catholic.

Surely the monumental failure of the contemporary Church is its inablility to admonish and condemn. Alas, it is common knowledge that many liberal bishops have been appointed and this has given strength to liberal Bishops' Conferences, which are extremely influential in selecting future bishops and so it goes on. These liberal bishops never tire of telling us that there is no crisis within Holy Mother Church, notwithstanding all the evidence against such a claim.

All the efforts to renew the Church in recent decades have proved fruitless. There may have been many false initiatives and misguided attempts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. We have had pastoral centres, retreat houses, spiritual centres etc, but all are only vain efforts and substitutes for authentic renewal. For example, here in the UK (Birmingham) a few years back there was this big rallying call to the youth, a 24 hour programme. We were informed that there were 'workshops' (God spare us from them); theatre productions - "Find it, Wear it, Like it" - and more; speed dating with friends first, live bands, nightlife! etc. etc. However, if these young people are not saying their prayers and keeping God's Commandments, all these worldly gimmicks are a sheer waste of time. The real tools for renewal are Holy Mass and the Rosary. Look, dear friend, if the youth have no interest in the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary, then all their efforts are doomed and there will not be growth in holiness and a mind fixed upon heavenly things (Col 3: 2). On the contrary, a compromising love of the world will remain and desire to live the faith in accordance with the prevailing decadent culture, which will sadly become their guide and not the good and ennobling standards of our most holy faith.

As Catholics we belong to the one true Church but many, I fear, are ashamed to profess or live the faith of that Church, including living up to its arduous requirements. Some years ago I remember watching Jon Snow, the ITN Channel 4 News Anchor, interview some young Muslim girls. They were not reticent in telling him what they believed and made it abundantly clear that they had no time for the exposure of putative Christian girls in matters of attire and their use of alcohol and pre-marital carnal relations. They spoke quite frankly with no inhibitions whatsoever. Now what answers would professing Catholic girls give if they were asked about birth prevention and sexual relations before marriage? Much of the problem is down to poor catechesis and the Church must share a great deal of the blame for this, but it all a part of the current crisis. All this would have been unthinkable only 60 years ago. Times have changed and we have certainly moved with them alright, that is for sure.

Thankfully, dear friend, all is not doom and gloom and some American bishops are trying to restore the Church. For example, Bishop Vasa of Baker, Oregon, lays down strict conditions for extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist. Archbishop Burke of St. Louis is another good chap who is strict as regards Catholic doctrine. Some men extol him for his firmness, whilst others object strongly to his views. He said he could deny Holy Communion to John Kerry, the one-time democratic nominee, who supports abortion and he refused to have anything to do with the singer Sheryl Crow, who also supports abortion. Another stalwart US bishop is Robert Finn of Kansas City in Missouri. This dear man changed the diocese from one focussed upon social engagement and lay empowerment to one that is traditionally Catholic. He closed the modernist catechetical and lay empowerment programmes and restored Corpus Christi processions and other traditional Catholic practices. Moreover, he insisted on the faithful transmission of Catholic teaching. The diocese had focussed on social issues and themes and had spent large sums of cash promoting the same. One could say that the diocese had a thorough 'makeover', to use the modern parlance. May it please God to raise up many more solid men like these, especially here in the UK, which is extremely liberal, with the exception of Bishop Patrick O' Donoghue.

Yes, dear friend, it is manifestly obvious that the current crisis is undoubtedly unparalled in the history of the Church.


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

Beautifully written and very informative as always my friend!

[dragonslayer2]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is a summary in Bishop Fellay's words.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/201...departure.html

He does not appear confident of a resolution in the short term.

[TimothyH]

Originally Posted by Portrait

Dear OraLabora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

Indeed, dear friend, there have been turbulent periods in times past, but the Church addressed them and dealt with them effectively. This is clearly not happening at the present time and thus multitudes of dissidents, both clergy and laity, are not disciplined, rebuked or excommunicated. This is why the present crisis is unprecedented.

At one time, dear friend, the Church and its leaders were strong and whilst some may have hated the Church, many admired it. It is still disliked by many outside of its bosom, but it is no longer admired as it once was. Cherie Blair (a professing Catholic and wife of the former UK Prime Minister) said that she did not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibilty of the pope. Now she would never have said such an unorthodox thing forty years ago, for had she done so, she would not have been considered a Catholic.

Surely the monumental failure of the contemporary Church is its inablility to admonish and condemn. Alas, it is common knowledge that many liberal bishops have been appointed and this has given strength to liberal Bishops' Conferences, which are extremely influential in selecting future bishops and so it goes on. These liberal bishops never tire of telling us that there is no crisis within Holy Mother Church, notwithstanding all the evidence against such a claim.

All the efforts to renew the Church in recent decades have proved fruitless. There may have been many false initiatives and misguided attempts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. We have had pastoral centres, retreat houses, spiritual centres etc, but all are only vain efforts and substitutes for authentic renewal. For example, here in the UK (Birmingham) a few years back there was this big rallying call to the youth, a 24 hour programme. We were informed that there were 'workshops' (God spare us from them); theatre productions - "Find it, Wear it, Like it" - and more; speed dating with friends first, live bands, nightlife! etc. etc. However, if these young people are not saying their prayers and keeping God's Commandments, all these worldly gimmicks are a sheer waste of time. The real tools for renewal are Holy Mass and the Rosary. Look, dear friend, if the youth have no interest in the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary, then all their efforts are doomed and there will not be growth in holiness and a mind fixed upon heavenly things (Col 3: 2). On the contrary, a compromising love of the world will remain and desire to live the faith in accordance with the prevailing decadent culture, which will sadly become their guide and not the good and ennobling standards of our most holy faith.

As Catholics we belong to the one true Church but many, I fear, are ashamed to profess or live the faith of that Church, including living up to its arduous requirements. Some years ago I remember watching Jon Snow, the ITN Channel 4 News Anchor, interview some young Muslim girls. They were not reticent in telling him what they believed and made it abundantly clear that they had no time for the exposure of putative Christian girls in matters of attire and their use of alcohol and pre-marital carnal relations. They spoke quite frankly with no inhibitions whatsoever. Now what answers would professing Catholic girls give if they were asked about birth prevention and sexual relations before marriage? Much of the problem is down to poor catechesis and the Church must share a great deal of the blame for this, but it all a part of the current crisis. All this would have been unthinkable only 60 years ago. Times have changed and we have certainly moved with them alright, that is for sure.

Thankfully, dear friend, all is not doom and gloom and some American bishops are trying to restore the Church. For example, Bishop Vasa of Baker, Oregon, lays down strict conditions for extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist. Archbishop Burke of St. Louis is another good chap who is strict as regards Catholic doctrine. Some men extol him for his firmness, whilst others object strongly to his views. He said he could deny Holy Communion to John Kerry, the one-time democratic nominee, who supports abortion and he refused to have anything to do with the singer Sheryl Crow, who also supports abortion. Another stalwart US bishop is Robert Finn of Kansas City in Missouri. This dear man changed the diocese from one focussed upon social engagement and lay empowerment to one that is traditionally Catholic. He closed the modernist catechetical and lay empowerment programmes and restored Corpus Christi processions and other traditional Catholic practices. Moreover, he insisted on the faithful transmission of Catholic teaching. The diocese had focussed on social issues and themes and had spent large sums of cash promoting the same. One could say that the diocese had a thorough 'makeover', to use the modern parlance. May it please God to raise up many more solid men like these, especially here in the UK, which is extremely liberal, with the exception of Bishop Patrick O' Donoghue.

Yes, dear friend, it is manifestly obvious that the current crisis is undoubtedly unparalled in the history of the Church.


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

No, it is not obvious. In fact, your assertion is rediculous.

The assertion that what is happening in the Church today is worse than the millenia long seperation of unified Christianity into East, West and Orthodoxy, and that the proliferation of error taught by thirty thousand denominations and seperation from the sacraments of billions of Christians is better than what is happening in the Church today is a complete absurdity.

Anyone who knows about the historical events surrounding the separation of Eastern and Western Christianty in 1054 AD, including the massacre in 1182 and the siege of Constantinople in 1224, can hardly compare it to the 50 years since the second Vatican Council and claim that the times since the council are worse. In light of a millenia long seperation between East and West, the claim that the Church had dealt with the former effectively and not with latter is simply rediculous.

Whatever one believes has happened in the Church since the Second Vatican Council, one cannot take seriously any claim that the seperation of billions of Christians from the sacraments as a result of the Protestant reformation is not far worse, or that the Church has dealt with the proliferation of 30,000 denominations teaching error better than it has dealt with the aftermath of the council.

There was premarital sex and alcohol use in the city of Corinth during the first centry. It's nothing new. God thought the issue was so imporant back then that he inspired St. Paul had to write two letters about it which are now included in the Bible! It's nothing new.

All the crisis mongering is lack of trust in God. That's what it is.


-Tim-

[OurBeloved]

Originally Posted by TimothyH

No, it is not obvious. In fact, your assertion is rediculous.

The assertion that what is happening in the Church today is worse than the millenia long seperation of unified Christianity into East, West and Orthodoxy, and that the proliferation of error taught by thirty thousand denominations and seperation from the sacraments of billions of Christians is better than what is happening in the Church today is a complete absurdity.

Anyone who knows about the historical events surrounding the separation of Eastern and Western Christianty in 1054 AD, including the massacre in 1182 and the siege of Constantinople in 1224, can hardly compare it to the 50 years since the second Vatican Council and claim that the times since the council are worse. In light of a millenia long seperation between East and West, the claim that the Church had dealt with the former effectively and not with latter is simply rediculous.

Whatever one believes has happened in the Church since the Second Vatican Council, one cannot take seriously any claim that the seperation of billions of Christians from the sacraments as a result of the Protestant reformation is not far worse, or that the Church has dealt with the proliferation of 30,000 denominations teaching error better than it has dealt with the aftermath of the council.

There was premarital sex and alcohol use in the city of Corinth during the first centry. It's nothing new. God thought the issue was so imporant back then that he inspired St. Paul had to write two letters about it which are now included in the Bible! It's nothing new.

All the crisis mongering is lack of trust in God. That's what it is.


-Tim-

You are not even addressing his point here my friend. The problem that is present today, as far as I know history, is only found in the Book of Judges.

Let me explain it to you again why that is. The crisis today is not that people want to engage in premarital sex or that bishops teach error. The problem here is that those with authority in the church i.e. Priests/Bishops/Cardinals do teach error, abuse the liturgy, but are not corrected or warned. They are simply allowed to continue.

That sort of crisis is unique in the church. The church in the past has been prompt, as it should be, in correcting or condemning errors of those in positions of authority. But now, the adage seems to be that unless a priests molests a child, its ok.

So I don't think Portrait has said anything ridiculous.

Also, this is not to say that the this is the end. Just like after the period in the Book of Judges, God will find a way. But you cannot expect those who notice the problem right now to not speak out on how grave it is.

[Denise1957]

Originally Posted by Portrait

Dear OraLabora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

Indeed, dear friend, there have been turbulent periods in times past, but the Church addressed them and dealt with them effectively. This is clearly not happening at the present time and thus multitudes of dissidents, both clergy and laity, are not disciplined, rebuked or excommunicated. This is why the present crisis is unprecedented.

At one time, dear friend, the Church and its leaders were strong and whilst some may have hated the Church, many admired it. It is still disliked by many outside of its bosom, but it is no longer admired as it once was. Cherie Blair (a professing Catholic and wife of the former UK Prime Minister) said that she did not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibilty of the pope. Now she would never have said such an unorthodox thing forty years ago, for had she done so, she would not have been considered a Catholic.

Surely the monumental failure of the contemporary Church is its inablility to admonish and condemn. Alas, it is common knowledge that many liberal bishops have been appointed and this has given strength to liberal Bishops' Conferences, which are extremely influential in selecting future bishops and so it goes on. These liberal bishops never tire of telling us that there is no crisis within Holy Mother Church, notwithstanding all the evidence against such a claim.

All the efforts to renew the Church in recent decades have proved fruitless. There may have been many false initiatives and misguided attempts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. We have had pastoral centres, retreat houses, spiritual centres etc, but all are only vain efforts and substitutes for authentic renewal. For example, here in the UK (Birmingham) a few years back there was this big rallying call to the youth, a 24 hour programme. We were informed that there were 'workshops' (God spare us from them); theatre productions - "Find it, Wear it, Like it" - and more; speed dating with friends first, live bands, nightlife! etc. etc. However, if these young people are not saying their prayers and keeping God's Commandments, all these worldly gimmicks are a sheer waste of time. The real tools for renewal are Holy Mass and the Rosary. Look, dear friend, if the youth have no interest in the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary, then all their efforts are doomed and there will not be growth in holiness and a mind fixed upon heavenly things (Col 3: 2). On the contrary, a compromising love of the world will remain and desire to live the faith in accordance with the prevailing decadent culture, which will sadly become their guide and not the good and ennobling standards of our most holy faith.

As Catholics we belong to the one true Church but many, I fear, are ashamed to profess or live the faith of that Church, including living up to its arduous requirements. Some years ago I remember watching Jon Snow, the ITN Channel 4 News Anchor, interview some young Muslim girls. They were not reticent in telling him what they believed and made it abundantly clear that they had no time for the exposure of putative Christian girls in matters of attire and their use of alcohol and pre-marital carnal relations. They spoke quite frankly with no inhibitions whatsoever. Now what answers would professing Catholic girls give if they were asked about birth prevention and sexual relations before marriage? Much of the problem is down to poor catechesis and the Church must share a great deal of the blame for this, but it all a part of the current crisis. All this would have been unthinkable only 60 years ago. Times have changed and we have certainly moved with them alright, that is for sure.

Thankfully, dear friend, all is not doom and gloom and some American bishops are trying to restore the Church. For example, Bishop Vasa of Baker, Oregon, lays down strict conditions for extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist. Archbishop Burke of St. Louis is another good chap who is strict as regards Catholic doctrine. Some men extol him for his firmness, whilst others object strongly to his views. He said he could deny Holy Communion to John Kerry, the one-time democratic nominee, who supports abortion and he refused to have anything to do with the singer Sheryl Crow, who also supports abortion. Another stalwart US bishop is Robert Finn of Kansas City in Missouri. This dear man changed the diocese from one focussed upon social engagement and lay empowerment to one that is traditionally Catholic. He closed the modernist catechetical and lay empowerment programmes and restored Corpus Christi processions and other traditional Catholic practices. Moreover, he insisted on the faithful transmission of Catholic teaching. The diocese had focussed on social issues and themes and had spent large sums of cash promoting the same. One could say that the diocese had a thorough 'makeover', to use the modern parlance. May it please God to raise up many more solid men like these, especially here in the UK, which is extremely liberal, with the exception of Bishop Patrick O' Donoghue.

Yes, dear friend, it is manifestly obvious that the current crisis is undoubtedly unparalled in the history of the Church.


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

Portrait,

I like your posts, as they are charitable and wise, and I do sympathize with what you are saying. I've been a Catholic for only five years, so I'm no expert, but I think that it was far easier to be a Catholic 40 or 50 years ago, before the drastic changes in society took place. I could easily be wrong, but I see that it may be more difficult to be a devout, practicing Catholic nowadays due to the expectations of the dominant culture. For instance, when I was growing up in the 1960's, it was unusual for a couple to live together without being married. Now it is the norm, sadly. In order to conform with Church teachings, one has to go very much against the culture, and many are just not strong enough to do so. Yes, it would help, I think, if a better catechesis were taught at all Catholic Churches, but only some will listen, I think. Please pray for those who just don't understand the importance of Church teaching.

You mentioned that Cherie Blair does not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibiblity of the Pope, but at least she knows what the Church teaches on the subject, so someone must have informed her of it somewhere along the way. That's a good sign!

Please don't lose heart, Portrait, or hope, as Our Lord knows what is happening; he is no stranger to His Church. The Catholic Church is still the perfect, spotless bride of Christ, even if many who dwell within are far from perfect.

God bless!

[sw85]

Every day sees some new impediment, new delay, new objection thrown up. I can't help but feel that reconciliation is now in principle very unlikely.

[archangel04]

Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer

I'm sorry but I thought only Protestants would go through that route.

I think some of you are missunderstanding me. What makes someone "more" Catholic? If we are measuring the standard by the office of the Pope, then yes there is no one more Catholic than the Pope. But remember there have been some bad popes in the past who did not live sanintly lives, so would these Popes be more Catholic then let's say St. Francis? That's all I am saying, I am not going the protestant route

Now this is not part of the topic so lets drop it. Thanks

[Mike30]

I personally think that about 4,500 angels can dance on the head of a pin, which is exactly as relevant as all of these tired old threads about the SSPX are.

Look, I will make a huge assumption here and say not a single person on this thread is a member of the SSPX. And certainly no one here is in the upper levels of the Society. Let the Society and the Church work it out or not. We as the laity don't have a clue as to what is really going on..

Let it go. It doesn't really concern you or me. It really doesn't'

Just let it go.

[Lost Wanderer]

Originally Posted by archangel04

Now this is not part of the topic so lets drop it. Thanks

I'm afraid it is. Just because you bring up the fallible side of the Pope doesn't mean you can just flout his authority. Like any leader, the Pope's job is to uphold the laws of the Church. If the SSPX deems itself higher than that Law, there will be consequences. It's that simple.

[Andre1000]

Originally Posted by pnewton

That is not a heresy. The Church could allow this (and does in some situations).

Can you show where the German bishops have came out with any of the other points you mentioned? As it is, excuse me if I hold an extreme amount of skepticism as to your claims.

Sorry my error. The other points are made by many priest here, not by the bishops conference.

But how can the Church allow people to go to the communion in the state of mortal sin? The Church teaches that this is a grave sin.

[Portrait]

Originally Posted by Denise1957

Portrait,

I like your posts, as they are charitable and wise, and I do sympathize with what you are saying. I've been a Catholic for only five years, so I'm no expert, but I think that it was far easier to be a Catholic 40 or 50 years ago, before the drastic changes in society took place. I could easily be wrong, but I see that it may be more difficult to be a devout, practicing Catholic nowadays due to the expectations of the dominant culture. For instance, when I was growing up in the 1960's, it was unusual for a couple to live together without being married. Now it is the norm, sadly. In order to conform with Church teachings, one has to go very much against the culture, and many are just not strong enough to do so. Yes, it would help, I think, if a better catechesis were taught at all Catholic Churches, but only some will listen, I think. Please pray for those who just don't understand the importance of Church teaching.

You mentioned that Cherie Blair does not accept the Church's teaching on contraception or the infallibiblity of the Pope, but at least she knows what the Church teaches on the subject, so someone must have informed her of it somewhere along the way. That's a good sign!

Please don't lose heart, Portrait, or hope, as Our Lord knows what is happening; he is no stranger to His Church. The Catholic Church is still the perfect, spotless bride of Christ, even if many who dwell within are far from perfect.

God bless!

Dear Denise,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response, dear sister, and the kind words regarding my post.

Indeed, you are quite right, dear sister, the phenomenal impact of the permissive 1960's did effect great changes within the Western world. The sad legacy of the sexual revolution is to be seen all around us today and we are paying a jolly heavy price because of that 'whole generation with a new explanation'. Now men are confused and are drifting rudderless on a sea of moral uncertainty. Moreover, notwithstanding the quest for happiness people are not happier, in fact they are more restless and discontented than ever. Men and women have also become more brash and fierce in recent years and civil behaviour is becoming uncommon now.

Yes, dear sister, to be a true Catholic today means swimming against the stream of moral and cultural deterioration and daring to be different. That takes courage and humble submission to our Lord in love and obedience. Unfortunately, many modern Catholics want to give to religion as little as possible, but they still expect much from it, inspite of their worldliness and spiritual torpor.

The Catholic Church should be the beacon on the hilllside attracting the attention of all men, continually "reproving, rebuking and exhorting" (II Tim. 4: 2). When the decadent culture of the 1960's emerged it should have been nipped in the bud by stern condemnation and faithful moral teaching. Sadly, this did not happen anywhere on the scale that it should have and even now we have a timid leadership, thus it is hardly surprising that men are not attracted to those who do not believe in the righteousness of their own cause. Could this be the reason why Muslim mosques are being errected all over Europe, while the Catholic Church declines in faith and practice? It seems to many that our Church is intent on arriving at the lowest common denominator, so as to be credible and attractive to the secular world, not appearing to austere and prudish. This is a grave error, whatever happened to the notion of providing a vibrant Christian counter-culture?

The Catholic Church's understanding of God and mankind is correct, yet some modern Catholics are going everywhere to find themselves, or so they say, and to find a new perspective on God, but they should listen to the authentic voice of the Magisterium. Dissenting Catholicism, dear sister, is taking root everywhere, in seminars, religious houses and universities, and many priests are under enormous pressure and frequently buckle and go along with it. All of this is a great tragedy and is cause enough to be very heavyhearted. Yes, indeed, God is aware of what is going on within his Church and the abounding compromise with the world. However, many of us are thoroughly convinced that the days ahead will be a time of great trial for earnest orthodox Catholics and men will be compelled to nail their colours to the mast.

As regards Cherie Blair and her husband, they, and others like them, are convinced that the Church will eventually embrace a more liberal stance, and the way things are going presently who can blame them for entertaining such a view. They know what the Church teaches, but willfully refuse to submit and obey that teaching, believing that one day the Church will be made in their image.

We must not loose heart, as you say, for the "gates of hell" will never prevail against the one true Church of Christ (S. Matt. 16: 18), even if that Church does become a very small in number. Christ predicted that, as the world grows old and His Second Advent is delayed, faith in the promised deliverance will wax dim, and men will begin to faint instead of praying without ceasing. Those faithful who endure unto the end, steadfst in hope, unshaken in confidence, will be very small remnant (cf. S. Lk. 18: 8).

God bless, my dear sister.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

[Lormar]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Excellent post Gabriel Serafin.

Yes, it is an excellent post.

Gabriel Serafin, you just saved me from doing something supremely stupid. Thank you.

[Big_Feet]

Originally Posted by Stylites

Indeed. I can't imagine why anyone would drive past five licit Masses to reach one where the priest is actively sinning by celebrating an illicit Mass.

This, too has boggled my mind. I feel that it is the near equivalent of saying that those truly licit and valid consecrations being passed are not valid. Now, on the other hand, if one was passing these masses to reach one that was LICIT and valid, I would not have any issues with this.

A similar situation would be an eastern rite Catholic passing up going to a OF mass in order to attend a Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox church. "Approved" by the Catholic Church in the strictest sense, but is this the right thing to do?