What does the Church say about the idea that people are different

TreeOfLife123 · #1 Jul 5, '12, 5:23 am

Does the Church teach that some people are intrinsically more bad than others? Or that some people are more good than others based on how God makes them intrinsically? Something about their soul for example?

dmelosi · #2 Jul 5, '12, 6:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeOfLife123

Does the Church teach that some people are intrinsically more bad than others? Or that some people are more good than others based on how God makes them intrinsically? Something about their soul for example?

Each of us are different. The Catholic church recognizes that.

The church teaches that God defines good and good can be different for different people. Good can be redefined for each of us as we grow on their spiritual journey.

It is each of our duty to seek and search how we become more "good" or become closer to the example of how to live our lives that God gave us, Jesus.

I believe that we will be judged partially by our search for the truth.

Peanut7949 · #3 Jul 5, '12, 7:14 am

Good question and good reply. The answer is probably outlined in the Catechism, though I am unsure where since I am a novice. What do you mean by different?

Each person is born with some similar faucets, such as free will... a particular place, being born into a family and the decisions that are already being made there..
In what way of different do you mean? We are all born with some life to make decisions with.

thistle · #4 Jul 5, '12, 7:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeOfLife123

Does the Church teach that some people are intrinsically more bad than others? Or that some people are more good than others based on how God makes them intrinsically? Something about their soul for example?

Nobody is born bad.

St Francis · #5 Jul 5, '12, 7:28 am

People are born with natural virtues and also with original sin, so also tendencies towards the bad. One might think of strengthst and weaknesses. One person may have strength in the area of material goods (generosity) but a weakness in the area of courage. Another may be strong in justice, but weak in purity. And so on.

It is our task to strengthen our weaknesses and develop our strengths, and do everything for the glory of God. Not an easy task, but God will always help us as much as we ask and let Him.

TreeOfLife123 · #6 Jul 5, '12, 7:55 am

I believe that people can work on things and develop a certain way based on behaviors and thoughts and deeds and strivings/what they seek and for other reasons as well. I don't think there is an innate basis to being worse than someone who is being good. I think it can be tempting to believe that if you are upset with the conduct of people who hurt you and they behave badly. But in truth it has much to do with what people choose and how they choose to live their life and what they have been exposed to.

When I said different I meant if someone is a liar or very unethical or very cruel. But I think the logical and honest and true statement is that everyone has potential for good and bad. I don't yet understand why certain things are brought out in certain people.

I think it has to do with free will. But I still find myself confused by the question of why are they choosing what they choose. What is the basis to the choice? If what people choose has a cause then how is it just free will? It seems to have to do with free will as to why we choose what we choose. But I still ask what IS free will and what about the idea that there were causes to our choice?

So I suppose I can sum it up by asking what IS free will? And also perhaps ask why don't certain people use their free will wisely and make good choices?

Petersmate · #7 Jul 5, '12, 8:21 am

What about people with mental illnesses that harm others either emotionally physically or sexually?

sedonaman · #8 Jul 5, '12, 8:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeOfLife123

... why don't certain people use their free will wisely and make good choices?

Because some see others only as an opportunity to do evil. I'm thinking of the despots of history.
_________________
“Few of the great tragedies of history were created by the village idiot, but many by the village genius.” – Thomas Sowell

TreeOfLife123 · #9 Jul 5, '12, 8:46 am

In the case of someone who is mentally ill I think it should be considered that they too have been harmed by others psychologically emotionally physically and also sexually. I think the mentally ill are often abused which can lead them to do certain things that frighten others. And of course not all mentally ill people behave in such a way.

So if there are causes causing the behavior or issues in ill or healthy people alike how is it just free will? I think we can be compelled by our feelings to behave a certain way. Even if we are completely healthy. Can there be an "impairment" or harm to free will? Something that renders a person less able to use their free will? It seems feelings in general can do that.

But that considered I think that goes along with what I was asking that there are causes and sometimes people can be overwhelmed by feelings or feel like they're being overwhelmed. So how is it just free will?

Dorothy · #10 Jul 5, '12, 9:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeOfLife123

I believe that people can work on things and develop a certain way based on behaviors and thoughts and deeds and strivings/what they seek and for other reasons as well. I don't think there is an innate basis to being worse than someone who is being good. I think it can be tempting to believe that if you are upset with the conduct of people who hurt you and they behave badly. But in truth it has much to do with what people choose and how they choose to live their life and what they have been exposed to.

When I said different I meant if someone is a liar or very unethical or very cruel. But I think the logical and honest and true statement is that everyone has potential for good and bad. I don't yet understand why certain things are brought out in certain people.

I think it has to do with free will. But I still find myself confused by the question of why are they choosing what they choose. What is the basis to the choice? If what people choose has a cause then how is it just free will? It seems to have to do with free will as to why we choose what we choose. But I still ask what IS free will and what about the idea that there were causes to our choice?

So I suppose I can sum it up by asking what IS free will? And also perhaps ask why don't certain people use their free will wisely and make good choices?

My priest explained that free will is the ability to choose good. We all have choices to make every day. Due to our tendency to selfishness (original sin) we need the grace of God to have the ability to make right choices.

To choose the wrong thing is to sin. Our remedy is Jesus Christ!

KCT · #11 Jul 5, '12, 10:08 am

God loves me every bit as much as he loves a drunk or a prostitute.

Peanut7949 · #12 Jul 6, '12, 6:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeOfLife123

I think it has to do with free will. But I still find myself confused by the question of why are they choosing what they choose. What is the basis to the choice? If what people choose has a cause then how is it just free will? It seems to have to do with free will as to why we choose what we choose. But I still ask what IS free will and what about the idea that there were causes to our choice?

So I suppose I can sum it up by asking what IS free will? And also perhaps ask why don't certain people use their free will wisely and make good choices?

Well there are only two directions to go... One is the truth.

Free will is the choice to love God or not. He gives his creatures free will because that is real... what is love that is forced but machinery? So he gives each free will to choose to follow him or not.. he asks us to, and is always forgiving us when we don't so that we might turn and experience what he made us for...

I just took the classes to enter catholic Church RCIA so we learned about how some people are poorer (spiritually) than others... their sin is smaller because they do not have as much free will as the other, someone who was brought up in the faith... so if you grew up with divorced parents.. and you commit fornication, your sin-o-meter is less than your friend who grew up in the faith with their parents together and fornicated... So free will is more exercised in the second case, ... the first didn't understand as well their freedom~

"Forgive them for they know not what they do."

There does need to be that aspect of faith though, such that the robber on one side has and the other does not next to Jesus on the cross.

Also, which surprised me, when someone sins the first time say stealing, the sin is greater in FULL KNOWLEDGE than the next and next and next time, because they have lost ... logic and are now doing it in habit without thinking as much. This might need corrections and I would ask a striving for holiness friend such as priest. God Bless

fred conty · #13 Jul 6, '12, 10:03 am

I was watching Mother Angelica on EWTN and she gave a delightful story about two little children she met. I believe she said they were twins or related. Each little one had an icecream cone. One stuck out her arm and offered sister a bite. The other put her arm behind her back and looked down.

She made the comment that she witnessed the different dispossitions of the two. One being outgoing and giving, the other more to herself. She saw this as something we grow into from natural inclinations we are given at birth. People are just plain different.

In the spiritual order of things, this can work for or against a person in the particulars.
We do have freedom to control, but this dosen't make up for what we naturally lack, nor does it give to us special talents. So some will have a weakness for excess in anger, while others may have a weakness for gossip.

This is the reason the saints worked on their particular weakness to turn that around into their strength, and of course, only by the help of God.

And here is a different point.

Some saints and mystics have said (not the offical church) that a very sinful family, parents especially, will carry a burden of punishment for the sins of their parents down several generations. I personally didn't use to believe this. But I have changed my mind
to some extent after what I have seen in families that I know. I think the kids do pay.
Of course you can take this or leave it, no matter. But it is on the subject.

Just a few ideas.

Lady Love · #14 Jul 6, '12, 9:05 pm

Every single person is wounded with sin. Analogy: Some have broken necks and are paralyzed from the neck down, some have no hands, some have brain injuries, some have arthritis, some have infectious diseases, some have blood disorders, etc. If we could see the wounds on our souls like we can see the wounds on the body we might have different expectations on each other and a lot less judgments about how good or bad a person is.

The sanctity of an individual can never be known except by God because only God knows what they have to overcome, or accept, or change. God is the only one who can see how much someone has advanced based on what they had to start with. Can a paralyzed person be expected to perform as though he is not paralyzed? Can a person born with mental retardation be held to the same standard as one without it?

We are all different and our level of accountability is based on those differences.