Science can't destroy Religion

[Lochias]

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

But that's the point though, a miracle - which could be anything and we know everyone there was expecting one.

It was just left as a vague, there will be a miracle.

It might have been a little more noteworthy if they'd said ahead of time, it will rain, suddenly stop, the sun will dance in the sky and it will last 7 minutes 54 seconds, or some thing like that.

But it was just '' a miracle''



It's not really.

I said to Al above I really do wish several observatories around the world had independently confirmed the sun, for several moments, was out of it's orbit, and closer to the earth by some 50 million miles.

Were that to have happened, we know the earth would have been destroyed, so that would really have made me take notice.

But unfortunately, the very systems set up to take note of such events, report nothing.

Sarah x

So, in other words, God should revolve around your own expectations and desires, in order to be valid and true?

[CopticChristian]

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

But that's the point though, a miracle - which could be anything and we know everyone there was expecting one.

It was just left as a vague, there will be a miracle.

It might have been a little more noteworthy if they'd said ahead of time, it will rain, suddenly stop, the sun will dance in the sky and it will last 7 minutes 54 seconds, or some thing like that.

But it was just '' a miracle''



It's not really.

I said to Al above I really do wish several observatories around the world had independently confirmed the sun, for several moments, was out of it's orbit, and closer to the earth by some 50 million miles.

Were that to have happened, we know the earth would have been destroyed, so that would really have made me take notice.

But unfortunately, the very systems set up to take note of such events, report nothing.

Sarah x

Sarah,

Any luck with any numbers?

I was looking back starting with post 315...and then I posted something...in retrospect I kind of derailed my own thread...the conversation from that point took a turn to what it is now...miracles, God and Science and without any direction we are a point where the last 100 posts are a free form basically showing that Science and Religion are compatible..I believe that Science Can't destroy Religion and it appears that Science has respect...it is an interesting read from post 315 to now..

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

I said to Al above I really do wish several observatories around the world had independently confirmed the sun, for several moments, was out of it's orbit, and closer to the earth by some 50 million miles.

On that note, have their been any modern miracles that have been capture with recording devices and put through anslysis?

[Lochias]

Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien

On that note, have their been any modern miracles that have been capture with recording devices and put through anslysis?

If you found out that the answer to this question was "yes", would you instantly and suddenly begin to believe whole-heartedly in God?

Edit: Any of the incorruptible corpses would satisfy this criteria, with examinations and documentation having been provided for them. There's a thread somewhere on the site here that links to the information.

[buffalo]

Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien

On that note, have their been any modern miracles that have been capture with recording devices and put through anslysis?

One could look at -
Science Sees What Mary Saw From Juan Diego’s Tilma



Digital technology is giving new leads for understanding a phenomenon that continues to puzzle science: the mysterious eyes of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
The image, imprinted on the tilma of a l6th-century peasant, led millions of indigenous Indians in Mexico to convert to the Catholic faith. Earlier this month in Rome, results of research into the famed image were discussed by engineer José Aste Tonsmann of the Mexican Center of Guadalupan Studies during a conference at Pontifical Regina Apostolorum Athenaeum.
For over 20 years, this graduate in environmental systems engineering at Cornell University has studied the image of the Virgin left on the rough maguey-fiber fabric of Juan Diego's tilma. What intrigued Tonsmann most were the eyes of the Virgin.
Though the dimensions are microscopic, the iris and the pupils of the image's eyes have imprinted on them a highly detailed picture of at least 13 people, Tonsmann said. The same people are present in both the left and right eyes, in different proportions, as would happen when human eyes reflect the objects before them.



more...

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by Lochias

If you found out that the answer to this question was "yes", would you instantly and suddenly begin to believe whole-heartedly in God?

If by that you mean would I specifically conclude that Yahweh exists then I don't know. I may need something that connects said miracle with Yahweh. I may have different reactions to different miracles. I've never knowingly experienced a miracle before and don't know much about how I would react to them. If I came across what appeared to be one that is within some domain that I understand (ex: if some one told me about a miracle in quantum mechanics I don't think I would be able to mentally process it presently) I might find it worthy of further consideration. I don't see myself coming to a hasty conclusion though. Depending on the circumstances some instances of that might come across as a "God of the Gaps" type conclusion.

Originally Posted by Lochias

Edit: Any of the incorruptible corpses would satisfy this criteria, with examinations and documentation having been provided for them. There's a thread somewhere on the site here that links to the information.

I've heard of these, and I've found information that has said that they were tested, but I've not been able to get my hands on a copy of a report from them having been tested.

[Lochias]

Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien

If by that you mean would I specifically conclude that Yahweh exists then I don't know. I may need something that connects said miracle with Yahweh. I may have different reactions to different miracles. I've never knowingly experienced a miracle before and don't know much about how I would react to them. If I came across what appeared to be one that is within some domain that I understand (ex: if some one told me about a miracle in quantum mechanics I don't think I would be able to mentally process it presently) I might find it worthy of further consideration. I don't see myself coming to a hasty conclusion though. Depending on the circumstances some instances of that might come across as a "God of the Gaps" type conclusion.

Ok, fair enough.

I've heard of these, and I've found information that has said that they were tested, but I've not been able to get my hands on a copy of a report from them having been tested.

I don't have the time currently to look, but one of the threads has a link that, in turn, links to a photographed medical report, if I recall correctly. I may be scarce on here for the next few days, but if you haven't found anything by then, I'll help you look.

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by Lochias

I don't have the time currently to look, but one of the threads has a link that, in turn, links to a photographed medical report, if I recall correctly. I may be scarce on here for the next few days, but if you haven't found anything by then, I'll help you look.

Okay, Thanks!

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by buffalo

One could look at -
Science Sees What Mary Saw From Juan Diego’s Tilma

I'll take a look, thanks!

[Lochias]

Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien

Okay, Thanks!

My pleasure.

[CrimsonThorn]

Originally Posted by ASimon

The Northern Lights phenomenon has a very well-understood scientific cause. What I was suggesting was that, in a species with eyes that are identically constructed, something like what allegedly happened at Fatima can also be scientifically explained (at least, in principle). In that sense, it wouldn't surprise me to know that many people in the field that day reported seeing roughly the same thing. In hindsight, it was practically an impromptu science experiment.

I disagree with this and I think you do too

Atheists love to bring up the scenario that if an event occurs and 5 people see the same thing, each will have a different perception of what actually occurred.

Now here you are saying that hundreds of people who saw and describe the exact same thing, are all hallucinating because their eyes are structured all the same. So why in the first scenario are the peoples' eyes not all structured the same too?

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by CrimsonThorn

Now here you are saying that hundreds of people who saw and describe the exact same thing, are all hallucinating because their eyes are structured all the same. So why in the first scenario are the peoples' eyes not all structured the same too?

He didn't suggest that they were hallucinating. A hallucination is a false perception. What does seem to be suggested is that they all really saw something and that what they saw was physical, though they may have misinterpreted it.

[buffalo]

The Amazing Story of the Hiroshima Eight



Early on August 6, 1945, a lone American B-29 Superfortress bomber circled in a vividly blue sky over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. The unsuspecting inhabitants on the ground barely glanced at the plane. They were unaware of the deadly payload it was about to unleash on them, ushering in the atomic age with unimaginable death and destruction.

As one single bomb neared the ground, a city died in an instant. Houses crumbled, people evaporated, an immense ball of fire shot skywards, and a terrible wave of super-heated gas bulged out from ground zero, flattening buildings for miles.

Amongst the unsuspecting inhabitants of Hiroshima was Fr. Schiffer, a Jesuit missionary assisting the many Catholics of that city. On the morning of August 6, 1945, he had just finished Mass and sat down at the breakfast table. As he plunged his spoon into a freshly sliced grapefruit, there was a bright flash of light. His first thought was that a fuel tanker had exploded in the harbor, as Hiroshima was a major port where the Japanese refueled their submarines. Then, in the words of Fr. Schiffer: “Suddenly, a terrible explosion filled the air with one bursting thunder stroke. An invisible force lifted me from the chair, hurled me through the air, shook me, battered me, whirled me round and round like a leaf in a gust of autumn wind.” Next thing he remembered was that he opened his eyes and found himself on the ground. He looked around, and saw there was nothing left in any direction: the railroad station and buildings in all directions were gone. Yet, the only harm to him was a few slight cuts in the back of his neck form shards of grass. As far as he could tell, there was nothing else physically wrong with him.


more...

[Lochias]

Originally Posted by buffalo

The Amazing Story of the Hiroshima Eight



Early on August 6, 1945, a lone American B-29 Superfortress bomber circled in a vividly blue sky over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. The unsuspecting inhabitants on the ground barely glanced at the plane. They were unaware of the deadly payload it was about to unleash on them, ushering in the atomic age with unimaginable death and destruction.

As one single bomb neared the ground, a city died in an instant. Houses crumbled, people evaporated, an immense ball of fire shot skywards, and a terrible wave of super-heated gas bulged out from ground zero, flattening buildings for miles.

Amongst the unsuspecting inhabitants of Hiroshima was Fr. Schiffer, a Jesuit missionary assisting the many Catholics of that city. On the morning of August 6, 1945, he had just finished Mass and sat down at the breakfast table. As he plunged his spoon into a freshly sliced grapefruit, there was a bright flash of light. His first thought was that a fuel tanker had exploded in the harbor, as Hiroshima was a major port where the Japanese refueled their submarines. Then, in the words of Fr. Schiffer: “Suddenly, a terrible explosion filled the air with one bursting thunder stroke. An invisible force lifted me from the chair, hurled me through the air, shook me, battered me, whirled me round and round like a leaf in a gust of autumn wind.” Next thing he remembered was that he opened his eyes and found himself on the ground. He looked around, and saw there was nothing left in any direction: the railroad station and buildings in all directions were gone. Yet, the only harm to him was a few slight cuts in the back of his neck form shards of grass. As far as he could tell, there was nothing else physically wrong with him.


more...

Wow, had never heard about this. Thanks.

[atheistgirl]

Originally Posted by buffalo

The Amazing Story of the Hiroshima Eight



Early on August 6, 1945, a lone American B-29 Superfortress bomber circled in a vividly blue sky over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. The unsuspecting inhabitants on the ground barely glanced at the plane. They were unaware of the deadly payload it was about to unleash on them, ushering in the atomic age with unimaginable death and destruction.

As one single bomb neared the ground, a city died in an instant. Houses crumbled, people evaporated, an immense ball of fire shot skywards, and a terrible wave of super-heated gas bulged out from ground zero, flattening buildings for miles.

Amongst the unsuspecting inhabitants of Hiroshima was Fr. Schiffer, a Jesuit missionary assisting the many Catholics of that city. On the morning of August 6, 1945, he had just finished Mass and sat down at the breakfast table. As he plunged his spoon into a freshly sliced grapefruit, there was a bright flash of light. His first thought was that a fuel tanker had exploded in the harbor, as Hiroshima was a major port where the Japanese refueled their submarines. Then, in the words of Fr. Schiffer: “Suddenly, a terrible explosion filled the air with one bursting thunder stroke. An invisible force lifted me from the chair, hurled me through the air, shook me, battered me, whirled me round and round like a leaf in a gust of autumn wind.” Next thing he remembered was that he opened his eyes and found himself on the ground. He looked around, and saw there was nothing left in any direction: the railroad station and buildings in all directions were gone. Yet, the only harm to him was a few slight cuts in the back of his neck form shards of grass. As far as he could tell, there was nothing else physically wrong with him.


more...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

They weren't the only survivors http://www.hiroshima-remembered.com/...ma/page14.html and as with all these claims, contradictory accounts abound, even from Jeusits themselves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Schiffer

http://www.asktheatheists.com/questi...n-atomic-bomb/

Are you trying to say God somehow protected these eight men? - There were others that survived of course - against all the others that died that terrible day?

I like this picture of thew Grand Mosque of Bandar Aceh that was right at ground zero of the earthquate and tsunami and yet survived.

Would you say that was God favoring His place of worship, or a combination of luck and construction techniques?

Sarah x