Help with Luke chapter 10

Kahawa · #1 Aug 11, '12, 3:39 pm

Could I get some help with these two passages in Luke?

I was reading some of Luke's Gospel yesterday at Adoration and I came across this (which I had not read or heard before):

"They entered a Samaritan town to prepare for his passing though, but the Samaritans would not welcome him because he was on his way to Jerusalem. When his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, would you not have us call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" He turned toward them only to reprimand them. Then they set off for another town." (Luke 9:52 – 9:56)

So at this point I was like "Now that's the Jesus I know and love!" But scarcely a few paragraphs down the same page, I ran across this (which I have heard several times):

"If the people of any town do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, 'We shake the dust of this town from our feet as testimony against you. But know that the reign of God is near.' I assure you, on that day the fate of Sodom will be less severe than that of such a town." (Luke 10:10 – 10:12)

This does not sound like Jesus at all, and it seems like the polar opposite of Jesus in the earlier verses. Did he mean it? I mean, it's one thing for God to wipe out a town like Sodom after saving its virtuous residents, but quite another to destroy a whole town merely for being unwelcoming toward the Apostles. Also, what Jesus said would/should happen to such towns has never happened despite many towns rejecting Christ and his messengers. So what could he have meant by what he said? Was it hyperbole?

Thank you!

Julian0404 · #2 Aug 11, '12, 4:27 pm

No, there is no hyperpole here, as JESUS never did and does not have to exaggerate. And the reason you have never seen "this" JESUS, WHO "promises" terrible destructive justice is because you and I and us are blessed to be living in the time of JESUS Mercy - read the Diary of St. Faustina "Divine Mercy" - however, we are all aware that when this moment in time, in which we live, has passed that HIS Mercy will be closed and HIS justice will be brought forth. The Flood during Noah's time, was an example of GOD's justice - very few survived that time of justice.

JESUS is informing HIS apostles directly - and us through scripture - how important their mission is - to go forth and teach all nations. If a Nation or Village, or individuals should hear and reject the gospel then they will experience a terrible destructive justice - as they will be rejecting GOD.

An excellent on-line bible study program is found at www.salvationhistory.com

SteveLy · #3 Aug 11, '12, 5:38 pm

Congratulations on delving deeper into your faith. One of the issues with 21st century Christianity is we've watered it down so much most Christians have a hard time thinking Jesus could do anything "not nice".

One other verse we do not hear in church is John 3:36
"36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

People hear this line and the one you mention and think Jesus is not compassionate. When we look more closely, He is as compassionate as can be. He knows the consequences of rejecting Him are absolutely horrific. So horrific that He agreed to take our form just to make sure we understood the importance.

The real question is for us. Do you believe those 2 verses (Christians should). If yes, knowing that this is the consequence of someone not knowing, or rejecting God, how can we not tell those we know or love that they need Christ as their Savior? How compassionate are we, knowing they are on a path to sure destruction and we let our fear of rejection or possibly harming a relationship get in the way of our love for our brother or sister and not tell them? Puts it in a different light, doesn't it?

Again,

Good luck with you're study.

Peace

TimothyH · #4 Aug 11, '12, 6:03 pm

They were reprimanded by Jesus because they were presuming to be as powerful as the prophet Elijah who was able to command fire from heaven to kill people.

But Eli'jah answered the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.(2 Kings 1:10)

James and John were the ones who asked if Jesus wanted them to command fire. They were reprimanded because they were presuming to be able to pass judgment on people and sentance them to hell as Elijah did many times.

Jesus tells the disciples in Luke 10 that they are to go out to the towns in pairs to offer peace, heal and cure, and that they are to offer it free of charge. He is is careful to tell them that they are to move on if their offer is not accepted, and in so doing reserves judgment for himself at the end of time. God rained down fire on Sodom, and Jesus is telling them not to try to do so themselves, but that they are to simply offer peace and healing, and if their offer is not accepted that they are to move on and let God take care of judgment.

-Tim-

Sirach2 · #5 Aug 11, '12, 6:05 pm

The earlier account in Luke suggests to me that his disciples wanted to vent their anger on the Samaritans. You could almost feel it in the way James and John expressed their frustration.

Whenever we have a duty to exercise discipline or punishment to correct the failing of another, it should be accompanied with a desire for their amendment, not their destruction as a retaliation for our anger.

I am presently involved with a family member for whom I pray continually that God would administer correction to bring about repentence, even if He uses me to bring it about. But this is peaceful and prayeful in the intent, even though I am suffering in the meanwhile awaiting His answer.

In the latter portion of Luke, Jesus is giving an explicit mission and the Holy Spirit would accompany them in sign proofs of healing and miracles that would confirm their message. If then, the people would not recognize Truth or receive them, they were to shake the dust, so to speak, and the judgment upon these towns would be according to God who sees the heart and knows their hidden motives. It doesn't work to keep harping when the listener rejects our message.

Linusthe2nd · #6 Aug 11, '12, 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahawa

Could I get some help with these two passages in Luke?

I was reading some of Luke's Gospel yesterday at Adoration and I came across this (which I had not read or heard before):

"They entered a Samaritan town to prepare for his passing though, but the Samaritans would not welcome him because he was on his way to Jerusalem. When his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, would you not have us call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" He turned toward them only to reprimand them. Then they set off for another town." (Luke 9:52 – 9:56)

So at this point I was like "Now that's the Jesus I know and love!" But scarcely a few paragraphs down the same page, I ran across this (which I have heard several times):

"If the people of any town do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, 'We shake the dust of this town from our feet as testimony against you. But know that the reign of God is near.' I assure you, on that day the fate of Sodom will be less severe than that of such a town." (Luke 10:10 – 10:12)

This does not sound like Jesus at all, and it seems like the polar opposite of Jesus in the earlier verses. Did he mean it? I mean, it's one thing for God to wipe out a town like Sodom after saving its virtuous residents, but quite another to destroy a whole town merely for being unwelcoming toward the Apostles. Also, what Jesus said would/should happen to such towns has never happened despite many towns rejecting Christ and his messengers. So what could he have meant by what he said? Was it hyperbole?

Thank you!

Post # 4 is the correct answer. Thanks for the Duay-Rhiems with the Haydock commentary.

Sirach2 · #7 Aug 11, '12, 7:11 pm

Here's the commentary from Haydock on verse 54:

Ver. 54. Wilt thou that we command fire, &c. In the Greek is added as Elias did. These words might be first in the margin, and thence by transcribers taken into the text. The two apostles, called the sons of thunder, knew their Master was greater than Elias; and therefore they are for calling for fire from heaven, as he had done. (Witham) --- It was probably this trait in the life of James and John, which gained them the name of boanerges, the sons of thunder. Their too great zeal for the glory of Jesus Christ, and the spirit of revenge, of which they were not yet healed, caused them to make this petition; which seemed in some manner justified by the example of Elias, 4th book of Kings, chap. i. 10. Many editions have the addition of these words, as Elias did. (Calmet)

Kahawa · #8 Aug 12, '12, 7:23 pm

These replies have been incredibly helpful. Thank you very much.

Huiou Theou · #9 Aug 12, '12, 7:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahawa

Could I get some help with these two passages in Luke?

"If the people of any town do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, 'We shake the dust of this town from our feet as testimony against you. But know that the reign of God is near.' I assure you, on that day the fate of Sodom will be less severe than that of such a town." (Luke 10:10 – 10:12)
...
Was it hyperbole?

Thank you!

There may be some hyperbole in it. Sodom's sin was to attempt to rape (literally) God himself -- sodomizing the angels who were in the town. This was immediately after God himself -- though Abraham -- *rescued* Sodom from their enemies; Sodom's thank you was attempted rape of God.

I find it difficult to imagine *all* of these towns were guilty of that heinous of a crime.

However, Jesus said something specific about his Incarnation; "I came not to judge"; Isaiah, prophesying about the incarnation, had said (among other things): "The smouldering wick I will not quench.."

It is upon the cross that both forgiveness and damnation were first meted out. The psalm Jesus quotes about "father into your hands" is a psalm carrying a curse; Let his office be desolate -- his FAMILY blotted out. They gave me vinegar to drink, and gall to eat.

But, also from the cross, Jesus says to others "Father, forgive them -- they know not what they do."

Some of those in these towns, would fall into the latter classification -- some would fall into the former. Some would later repent, others would never accept Jesus.

Jesus does say, in a very strong statement -- (paraphrase) "If I had not come, they would not be guilty -- but now I have come and there is no excuse for their sin"

stevekehl · #10 Aug 13, '12, 11:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahawa

Could I get some help with these two passages in Luke?
I was reading some of Luke's Gospel yesterday at Adoration and I came across this (which I had not read or heard before):
"They entered a Samaritan town to prepare for his passing though, but the Samaritans would not welcome him because he was on his way to Jerusalem. When his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, would you not have us call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" He turned toward them only to reprimand them. Then they set off for another town." (Luke 9:52 – 9:56)
So at this point I was like "Now that's the Jesus I know and love!" But scarcely a few paragraphs down the same page, I ran across this (which I have heard several times):
"If the people of any town do not welcome you, go into its streets and say, 'We shake the dust of this town from our feet as testimony against you. But know that the reign of God is near.' I assure you, on that day the fate of Sodom will be less severe than that of such a town." (Luke 10:10 – 10:12)
This does not sound like Jesus at all, and it seems like the polar opposite of Jesus in the earlier verses. Did he mean it? I mean, it's one thing for God to wipe out a town like Sodom after saving its virtuous residents, but quite another to destroy a whole town merely for being unwelcoming toward the Apostles. Also, what Jesus said would/should happen to such towns has never happened despite many towns rejecting Christ and his messengers. So what could he have meant by what he said? Was it hyperbole?
Thank you!

No contradiction here. One is the angry reaction of two men. The other will be the perfect judgement of God.These days we have come to emphasize the loving nature of God and ignored the judging nature of God. If God will not be mocked there must be judgement for the mockers.