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  #31  
Old Sep 19, '12, 3:14 pm
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchior_ View Post
One issue here; music is not uppercase Tradition. It is not a sin to have other instruments during Mass, one doesn't need to go to confession for playing a guitar at Mass.

Unless; do you think I am sinning?
Here's what I said:
Quote:
but conciliar and papal documents on the faith. These writings comprise the very Tradition to which Catholics adhere to, in an unbroken line from Holy Scripture to the present day.
I was referring to documents on the faith. I had switched focus to explain that the priest must be aware of all documents pertaining to his ministry, not just the liturgical ones.

It is not a sin to serve in obedience to your priest and bishop in accordance with their interpretations of Church documents. It is their right to make these interpretations, and there is a spectrum of possible outcomes where this interpretation is involved. You are correct that liturgical law is not doctrine, dogma or Tradition.
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  #32  
Old Sep 19, '12, 3:21 pm
LilMissyMary LilMissyMary is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

My husband plays electric guitar and bass. Trust me, there's plenty of ways to make it sound nice. Get out of your stereotypes please
  #33  
Old Sep 19, '12, 3:50 pm
RogerDeCourcy RogerDeCourcy is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

(Puff ... pant ...)

Am I too late? A post about Electric Guitars and bass? In the Traditional Catholicism forum?

(Inhales deeply ...)
  #34  
Old Sep 19, '12, 3:51 pm
in_servitude in_servitude is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Some parishes are huge. I attend Mass where there are 1500 people in a large building for each service. Also, there drums. And and amplified bass guitar. And an electric guitar. Violin. Piano. Flute. (Not the daily Mass - just Solemnities).

And, the priest is most anxious to avoid a "musicians on stage" mentality. All songs are such that everyone can easily participate in the singing. Rocky/solo centric songs with a jazzy (difficult to follow) beat do not happen.

Additionally, our priest makes an effort to teach that the Mass is a prayer that we all pray and participate in together. We are there to pray - not to sit and see a show. It is not a performance where the people in the pews are an audience.

The amplified music allows people to hear it that are in the back of the building. Without the electric amplification, they would have less opportunity to participate in the Mass.

While being rocky might get some kids in the door, it doesn't have staying power. There will always be a better form of entertainment (once they can choose for themselves after leaving home).

Also, have you ever notice how everyone is made differently? Some people actually comprehend subject matter better when sung, or when heard orally, or when seen visually, or so-on-and-so-on. The presentation of the Mass should be done reverently - but not only in the one way our own particular body/mind was designed.
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  #35  
Old Sep 19, '12, 4:03 pm
RogerDeCourcy RogerDeCourcy is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

It's comes down to the connotations of the sounds.

Bass, guitar and drums evoke the pop songs they commonly accompany. Add in simple folk hymns and you have something that probably wouldn't draw paying customers to a concert hall but is seen as good enough the Roman Catholic Mass, its central religious rite.

I've read Gegorian Chant is tempo-less to make sure people can't clap and sway to it.
  #36  
Old Sep 19, '12, 4:10 pm
LJN21 LJN21 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

I love rock, but not in my Mass. Pipe organs and Chant please!
  #37  
Old Sep 19, '12, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

I have a question for the OP. Why did you post this topic here, in the Traditional Catholicism Sub-forum, as opposed to LIturgy and Sacraments? I would assume it is not because this is an issue where the Mass is done according to the older form. Was it just an oversight?
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  #38  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

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Originally Posted by raaucoin View Post
Psalms 150 : 1-6
Psalm verses do not supersede the wishes of Holy Mother Church.
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  #39  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:15 pm
dean24us dean24us is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

You know, in reading all the responses, I have to wonder how the responses would have looked if CAF existed a few hundred years ago. I imagine that there would have been complaints of using what we now call 'classical' instruments: pianos, violins, oboes, etc. Most of these instruments were introduced during the 16th-17th century, and I have no doubt that some individuals of that time would be appalled by the use of 'modern' instruments in the mass. Indeed, if you went way far back, I'm sure some people would have an issue with that "new" pipe organ instrument being used in mass!

I realize I'm being a bit silly here, but my point is this: the instrument itself does not matter, only the way it is used in mass. New instruments are invented and old instruments evolve over time, and I see no reason to assume that an instrument is somehow "more holy" just because it is older. I have heard electric and bass guitars used in reverent ways (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwMaS4uVmM for a good example), while I have heard pipe organ music not suitable for mass (some of Bach's more "out there" organ fugues come to mind, but I'm sure there are others).

With regard to the OP, you are certainly within your rights to express your concerns to your pastor, and I recommend going this route if this subject is indeed weighing so heavily upon your soul. He may be able to give you some more background on what the intention is, or (if it is indeed "as bad" as some of the folks on CAF make it out to be) perhaps your words will be enough to change the course.

God bless,
Dean
  #40  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:22 pm
F0rg1v3 F0rg1v3 is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnewton View Post
I have a question for the OP. Why did you post this topic here, in the Traditional Catholicism Sub-forum, as opposed to LIturgy and Sacraments? I would assume it is not because this is an issue where the Mass is done according to the older form. Was it just an oversight?
Hi, and everybody thank you for taking the time to give your opinion and advice. I'm thinking of at least drafting a letter to the Pastor before I pack up and go to the smaller parish about two and a half miles south.

I put it here because it seemed the best spot for what is traditional and what is not. I see it as something that removes from the musical tradition of the Church. I wouldn't even have considered Liturgy or Sacraments. It seems further away from that. Actually, I hunted around, and thought it most appropriate here. Sorry if I posted in a less than ideal location. Maybe it's the way I look at it, personally. I think that's it.

I don't oppose it for being stodgy. Actually, I see the electric guitar as kind of an obsolete, dated instrument. I used to play electric guitar, but have moved on to synthesizers programmed with midi tools like Ableton. In my opinion, even young people don't have an especially favorable view of electric guitar. Most is dance oriented, hip hop, all that, its synth these days. Maybe its me. Maybe I just have an aversion to the idea of electric guitar in Church.

In any case, they already use a Yamaha Clavinova synthesizer for the 'piano' sounds. It does good pipe organ, church organ and sweeping string/choral simulations. They should give that a chance. Those sounds can be quite beautiful if played subtly and with taste.

I don't know, I just kind of agree with someone way back there that mentioned acapella. There's beauty in tradition.

In any case, tonight, in 90 minutes I'm going to a Church function where the two musicians in the Choir will be. Maybe I can get some insight by asking a question or two.
  #41  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by F0rg1v3 View Post
I don't know. Advice?
Trust your parish priest in the direction he wishes to move the 5:30 liturgy, and even give it a try with an open mind, rather than with worry and disgust and knee-jerk weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth as can be read in the thread.
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  #42  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by F0rg1v3 View Post
Hi, and everybody thank you for taking the time to give your opinion and advice. I'm thinking of at least drafting a letter to the Pastor before I pack up and go to the smaller parish about two and a half miles south.
I thank God I'm connected to the parish and community I belong to. Even though there are styles of worship and tabernacle placements etc I don't really like, leaving the parish for any of these reasons is not an option. There is too much family, friends, ministry to be done, I would never consider leaving no matter what the music.
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  #43  
Old Sep 19, '12, 5:47 pm
dean24us dean24us is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by F0rg1v3 View Post
Hi, and everybody thank you for taking the time to give your opinion and advice. I'm thinking of at least drafting a letter to the Pastor before I pack up and go to the smaller parish about two and a half miles south.

I put it here because it seemed the best spot for what is traditional and what is not. I see it as something that removes from the musical tradition of the Church. I wouldn't even have considered Liturgy or Sacraments. It seems further away from that. Actually, I hunted around, and thought it most appropriate here. Sorry if I posted in a less than ideal location. Maybe it's the way I look at it, personally. I think that's it.

I don't oppose it for being stodgy. Actually, I see the electric guitar as kind of an obsolete, dated instrument. I used to play electric guitar, but have moved on to synthesizers programmed with midi tools like Ableton. In my opinion, even young people don't have an especially favorable view of electric guitar. Most is dance oriented, hip hop, all that, its synth these days. Maybe its me. Maybe I just have an aversion to the idea of electric guitar in Church.

In any case, they already use a Yamaha Clavinova synthesizer for the 'piano' sounds. It does good pipe organ, church organ and sweeping string/choral simulations. They should give that a chance. Those sounds can be quite beautiful if played subtly and with taste.

I don't know, I just kind of agree with someone way back there that mentioned acapella. There's beauty in tradition.

In any case, tonight, in 90 minutes I'm going to a Church function where the two musicians in the Choir will be. Maybe I can get some insight by asking a question or two.
It's sounds like you're taking a very reasoned and charitable approach to the situation. Best of luck to you -- I'll pray for you tonight. Let us know how it works out!

For what it's worth, I humbly apologize if anything in my post came off as offensive or condescending. Truth be told, it was more intended to be a response towards some of the other comments in this thread. I, for one, have been getting a bit frustrated at some of the uncharitable comments I see on CAF as of late (I know, I know, it's an anonymous Internet forum, but still...).

God bless,
Dean
  #44  
Old Sep 19, '12, 10:01 pm
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Thomas Casey Thomas Casey is offline
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Default Re: Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

Deciding what a parish should or should not do at their 5:30 mass is not a topic about a Catholic Tradition. Please take those concerns to the appropriate people in the parishes.


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