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  #1  
Old Jun 7, '12, 5:33 am
levinas12 levinas12 is offline
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Default Does Agape Require Eros?

Imagine if someone were to say, "I love you but I don't like you". How would you respond to that? Probably not very enthusiastically.

Most of us feel that love without affection is at best "odd".

Pope Benedict XVI would agree.

In his encyclical, God is Love, he argues that agape and eros are not antithetical. Indeed, he seems to be saying that agape requires eros. Of course, eros in this context is not necessarily sexual. And does not imply a lack. Rather, eros is the delight we take in the being of another.

This view is contrary to Kant who argues for a totally "disinterested" love based on "duty", not "desire". .

Anders Nygren, a 20th century Swedish theologian, also believes that agape and eros don't mix.

But Benedict sees eros in a different light. For him, there is even a Divine Eros which springs from an overflowing generosity.
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  #2  
Old Jun 7, '12, 7:43 am
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Andre1000 Andre1000 is offline
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Default Re: Does Agape Require Eros?

It looks like Benedikt uses an other Eros than Anders Nygren.
Kant is meaningless.
In some way Benedikt is right, love and dislike do not mixe well.
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Sorry for my English and God bless you
Júdica me, Deus, et discérne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab dómine iníquo et dolóso érue me.
Quia tu es, Deus, fortitúdo mea: quare me repulísti, et quare tristis incédo, dum affligit me inimícus?
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  #3  
Old Jun 7, '12, 8:01 am
levinas12 levinas12 is offline
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Default Re: Does Agape Require Eros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre1000 View Post
It looks like Benedikt uses an other Eros than Anders Nygren.
Kant is meaningless.
In some way Benedikt is right, love and dislike do not mixe well.
I have to check Nygren again.

Philosophy and theology have struggled with eros.

Plato celebrates eros (at least the good eros) as the motivation for philosophy.

And Aristotle explains all natural motion in terms of eros.

On the theological side, the Song of Songs is a key text.

As well as the writings of St. John of the Cross and the 3 Teresas (Avila, Lisieux and Calcutta).

.
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Old Jun 7, '12, 11:01 am
Lancer Lancer is offline
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Default Re: Does Agape Require Eros?

I believe that Pope B-XVI has it the other way around...Eros has to have Agape (to purify the Eros)...especially in marriage...or you wind up using each other.

Love you but don't like you ...can be perfectly normal...probably the norm in many cases/episodes of a long life...a lot of our military have died trying to give freedom to many people they did not know or did not like...but through Agape...were willing the greatest good and justice for another person(s)...even if they suffer (conditions, family sacrifices, wounds) and maybe even give the ultimate sacrifice...their life in that cause...that is Agape love...surely not Eros (physical passion gratification and fulfillment).....and not Philos (brotherly love) or Storge (friend-love)

I tell my confessor...I know God...Lord Jesus Christ...loves me...but I want him to like me...be glad to see me show up at Mass...glad to come to me in Holy Communion...glad to see me come to adoration...glad to be with me in my marriage in his Holy Spirit...would like to have a burger and cold beer with me...at football game...RollTide!
Pax Christi
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  #5  
Old Jun 7, '12, 5:41 pm
levinas12 levinas12 is offline
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Default Re: Does Agape Require Eros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post

I believe that Pope B-XVI has it the other way around...Eros has to have Agape (to purify the Eros)...especially in marriage...or you wind up using each other.
I agree. But, according to Benedict, God is passionate about us. He takes "delight" in us. The Song of Songs is a template for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer;9381350)

[I
Love you but don't like you[/i] ...can be perfectly normal...probably the norm in many cases/episodes of a long life...
But this does not reflect Jesus' love command. He wants us to love our enemy the way God loves him or her, i.e., to take "delight" in the very being of our enemy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post

...a lot of our military have died trying to give freedom to many people they did not know or did not like...but through Agape...were willing the greatest good and justice for another person(s)...
I agree. But when Jesus' sacrifice was done out of the most intimate and personal love for each and every one of us because He "saw" us from the cross itself. Jesus can do these things because He is God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
.

...I tell my confessor...I know God...Lord Jesus Christ...loves me...but I want him to like me...be glad to see me show up at Mass...glad to come to me in Holy Communion...glad to see me come to adoration...glad to be with me in my marriage in his Holy Spirit...would like to have a burger and cold beer with me...at football game...RollTide!
Pax Christi
Yes, God knows your name, your address, your entire biography ... and takes delight in your very being ... so it is no surpise that He wants to be involved in all the details of your life.

Yes, God wants to be involved in every detail of our lives because He's passionate about us.

Last edited by levinas12; Jun 7, '12 at 6:00 pm.
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  #6  
Old Jun 7, '12, 6:47 pm
levinas12 levinas12 is offline
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Default Re: Does Agape Require Eros?

Please excuse the infelicities in the above. The system timed me out unexpectedly.

But I think the main idea came across.

By the way, this experience of God's love for us is beautifully exemplified in Franco Zeffirelli's TV mini-series, Jesus of Nazareth, in the scene where the loaves and fishes are multiplying like crazy. Mary Magdalen bites down on a piece of the miraculous bread, and begins to sob uncontrollably - it is "sobbing" both of repentance and joy. For she has just experienced God's intense love for her.

This is the basic rhythm of Christian life -God takes delight in us and we take delight in Him.
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