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  #16  
Old Jun 4, '12, 9:22 am
FurtherSuntime FurtherSuntime is offline
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Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 643
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Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ess1113a View Post
I think you are very correct Mary Ann and thats the way I was leaning as well. I guess I feel terrible that this theoretical person could receive the sacraments while holding this particular destructive viewpoint.
Is this really just a theoretical idea? A hypothetical thing?

It seems very odd to think of basically. For example:

What should we do sargeant if one of the boys comes into work with a sticker on the car that says

Move aside please, I just robbed a bank.
Wave for the best drug deal in town.
Desperate for doe? follow me.

I would defin first think it was a new car, borrowed car, someone put it there without knowledge. If you approach and get to talking, you wouldn't even have to bring it up...the behavior if your onto that would show.Its just such a conflicting idea.

Last edited by FurtherSuntime; Jun 4, '12 at 9:35 am.
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  #17  
Old Jun 7, '12, 2:50 pm
Qoeleth Qoeleth is offline
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Join Date: January 14, 2010
Posts: 1,366
Religion: Catholic/Philosopher
Default Re: Organizations

A person, if supporting a pro-abortion organisation, could be thought of as assisting/co-operating in abortion, and therefore would be out of communion. However, they could also argue they are not supporting abortion, but rather 'choice' (I don't agree with that interpretation, but it could be argued).

As for racist organisations, I don't see how that could justify excluding a person from communion (unless, of course, they were actually advocating murder or torture or something).
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  #18  
Old Jun 8, '12, 6:52 am
ess1113a ess1113a is offline
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Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 101
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

I guess I am perplexed, what hasnt the Holy See issued some guidelines for members of recognized extremist groups and the Holy Sacraments? I even searched the USCCB website and found no guidance.

I dont think we can find a Catholic that sees any good in a member of the White Supremecy Groups or other like minded organizations, but they are welcome to stand next to me at mass and receive the Holy Eucharist.

The Church has spent an inordinate amount of time over the years excluding certain other groups from the sacraments but when a member of the Church accepts extremist views and doctrines then they are considered "acceptable" in the Church. I think killing, advocating violence and the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government to be unacceptable

Do we have our priorities right?.
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  #19  
Old Jun 8, '12, 6:54 am
ess1113a ess1113a is offline
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Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 101
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurtherSuntime View Post
Is this really just a theoretical idea? A hypothetical thing?

It seems very odd to think of basically. For example:

What should we do sargeant if one of the boys comes into work with a sticker on the car that says

Move aside please, I just robbed a bank.
Wave for the best drug deal in town.
Desperate for doe? follow me.

I would defin first think it was a new car, borrowed car, someone put it there without knowledge. If you approach and get to talking, you wouldn't even have to bring it up...the behavior if your onto that would show.Its just such a conflicting idea.
I dont follow what you are saying.
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  #20  
Old Jun 14, '12, 4:34 am
ess1113 ess1113 is offline
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Join Date: December 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Following up on the thread and combining it with another:

I think we can agree (or at least become silent on this issue) that if a person belongs to an extremist group or a pro choice group then that person can legitimately receive the sacraments and we may (or may not) remind him of the error of his ways.

A person that is a Freemason cannot receive the sacrament (by decree from the Holy See).

Why arent we applying the same standards? I personally dont see why the Freemason cannot receive the Eucharist but a member of a hate group seems to be totally entitled to it.

I can see the Holy See not getting involved in every little groups right to exist but the USCCB hasnt even issued a policy statement on the issue.

Just wondering why.
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  #21  
Old Jun 14, '12, 6:51 am
Alberti_Devoveo Alberti_Devoveo is offline
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Join Date: December 29, 2011
Posts: 840
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ess1113 View Post
Following up on the thread and combining it with another:

I think we can agree (or at least become silent on this issue) that if a person belongs to an extremist group or a pro choice group then that person can legitimately receive the sacraments and we may (or may not) remind him of the error of his ways.

A person that is a Freemason cannot receive the sacrament (by decree from the Holy See).

Why arent we applying the same standards? I personally dont see why the Freemason cannot receive the Eucharist but a member of a hate group seems to be totally entitled to it.

I can see the Holy See not getting involved in every little groups right to exist but the USCCB hasnt even issued a policy statement on the issue.

Just wondering why.
Freemasonry is anti-Catholic and anti-Christian by nature. They maintain and profess the heretical "watch-maker" version of God, a la "The Supreme Architect of the Universe" of Calvin. It is for this reason that the Church forbids Freemasons from receiving the Eucharist.

Unless I am mistaken, hate groups & pro-life groups do not hold heretical positions, just morally wrong ones. No heresy, no need to ban them. However, as has been stated a few times in the thread, one should point out the morally erroneous position they hold in hopes of correcting their stance and their return to Fullness in the Church.
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  #22  
Old Jun 14, '12, 9:03 pm
ess1113 ess1113 is offline
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Join Date: December 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberti_Devoveo View Post
Freemasonry is anti-Catholic and anti-Christian by nature. They maintain and profess the heretical "watch-maker" version of God, a la "The Supreme Architect of the Universe" of Calvin. It is for this reason that the Church forbids Freemasons from receiving the Eucharist.

Unless I am mistaken, hate groups & pro-life groups do not hold heretical positions, just morally wrong ones. No heresy, no need to ban them. However, as has been stated a few times in the thread, one should point out the morally erroneous position they hold in hopes of correcting their stance and their return to Fullness in the Church.
I find that to be a great consolation when the person sitting next to me will be holding desires to rid the world of all non-anglo people. Not much comfort in your view point.
But thanks for trying.
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  #23  
Old Jun 15, '12, 9:34 am
Alberti_Devoveo Alberti_Devoveo is offline
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Join Date: December 29, 2011
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Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ess1113 View Post
I find that to be a great consolation when the person sitting next to me will be holding desires to rid the world of all non-anglo people. Not much comfort in your view point.
But thanks for trying.

My comment was not made in an effort to comfort you, but to explain to you the difference between a heretical group and a hate group that you seem to have not seen.

As has been suggested numerous times on the thread now, just talk to this person. Inform them that Jesus said, "This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12) and that belonging and/or supporting a hate group does not comply with Jesus' commandment.
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  #24  
Old Jun 15, '12, 7:21 pm
ess1113 ess1113 is offline
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Join Date: December 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Organizations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberti_Devoveo View Post
My comment was not made in an effort to comfort you, but to explain to you the difference between a heretical group and a hate group that you seem to have not seen.

As has been suggested numerous times on the thread now, just talk to this person. Inform them that Jesus said, "This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12) and that belonging and/or supporting a hate group does not comply with Jesus' commandment.
You probably should learn to recognize sarcasm when its directed at you.

I love knowing that I can remind the racist that they should love us all as they are burning crosses on the weekend and plotting the demise of an entire race of people, as they progress to receive communion along side all the rest of the parishoners.

I would prefer the fraternal groups that build hospitals, bill for no services, and treat children equally regardless of skin color. I can take communion easier knowing they are excluded from the sacraments.
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