Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice - Page 5

vz71 · #61 Jul 6, '12, 11:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Sounds charitable to the law abiding people.

Indeed, I expressed my misgivings about the concept earlier.

But there is the advantage of giving lifers exactly what they want while at the same time providing protection to the public.

JimR-OCDS · #62 Jul 6, '12, 12:32 pm

This has been the problem with mandatory minimum sentencing.

In this case, the actual leaders of the crimes, made plea bargains with the DA to have their sentences reduced, by testifying against the 18 year old, who got the mandatory minimum for the entire crime. In essence, he's doing in is doing the time for what the other men should've gotten.

I just learned of cases that are similar in drug conspiracy arrests.

One case, a woman was arrested for drug conspiracy, when her boy friend of one month, was arrested for dealing in drugs. She knew the boyfriend smoked pot, but had no idea that he was a major drug dealer. She had just broken up with the boyfriend when he was arrested. He and his accomplice plea bargained by testifying against the woman as being their aid, taking phone calls, providing transportation and housing the drug dealer and even delivering a bag full of drugs. What the woman thought she was doing was bringing the boyfriend's personal items to him, which he had left at her house one evening. She never looked in the bag, just thought it was dirty laundry and personal property of the boyfriend.

Anyway, she got 20 years in jail, and her two kids had to go live with her sister. He sentence was eventually commuted by President Clinton.

Jim

**SamH** · #63 Jul 6, '12, 1:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

This has been the problem with mandatory minimum sentencing.

In this case, the actual leaders of the crimes, made plea bargains with the DA to have their sentences reduced, by testifying against the 18 year old, who got the mandatory minimum for the entire crime. In essence, he's doing in is doing the time for what the other men should've gotten.

I just learned of cases that are similar in drug conspiracy arrests.

One case, a woman was arrested for drug conspiracy, when her boy friend of one month, was arrested for dealing in drugs. She knew the boyfriend smoked pot, but had no idea that he was a major drug dealer. She had just broken up with the boyfriend when he was arrested. He and his accomplice plea bargained by testifying against the woman as being their aid, taking phone calls, providing transportation and housing the drug dealer and even delivering a bag full of drugs. What the woman thought she was doing was bringing the boyfriend's personal items to him, which he had left at her house one evening. She never looked in the bag, just thought it was dirty laundry and personal property of the boyfriend.

Anyway, she got 20 years in jail, and her two kids had to go live with her sister. He sentence was eventually commuted by President Clinton.

Jim

Ever seen a person caught with a large quantity of drugs that didn't have a really good excuse as to why its not theirs, how they didn't know it was there and how they know nothing about it.

Just so you know - the criminal element doesn’t always tell the truth.

Just curious - how did Bill Clinton know her?

JimR-OCDS · #64 Jul 6, '12, 2:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Ever seen a person caught with a large quantity of drugs that didn't have a really good excuse as to why its not theirs, how they didn't know it was there and how they know nothing about it.

Just so you know - the criminal element doesn’t always tell the truth.

Just curious - how did Bill Clinton know her?

She only dated the guy for 1 month, she herself had not dated for three years after the death of her husband.

She never saw drugs other than the pot her boyfriend was smoking and she told him she didn't want that stuff in her home around her kids. The guy apologized and promised. However, when she caught him and his friends once again smoking pot in her garage, she broke it off with him. She refused his attempts to get back together.

Bill Clinton pardoned a group of people who had sent petitions outlining their cases, mostly wives and girlfriends of drug dealers and other criminals. The conspiracy laws are seriously flawed, in that you can be convicted as this woman was, merely for answering a phone call for the boyfriend, regardless of your ignorance of what the phone call was about.

BTW, the story is in the movie, "Guilt By Association," which is available on-demand, if you have Comcast.

Jim

bilop · #65 Jul 6, '12, 2:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvinf

There is no doubt that the US has a very cruel judicial system. The fact that juveniles get tried as adults or get life sentences is very cruel and disturbing! Since kids don't change.

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I disagree with this. If you are depraved enough to be committing rape or murder as a teenager, you are 99.999% irredeemable, a true sociopath.

The best we can do is protect society from them. Treat them as you would a mad dog. Execution or life imprisonment.

Like the recent case where some 13-16 y.o. males raped two girls who were around 11. Those kids should never set foot outside of an institution again.

Quite frankly, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt that 5% of them might change. Their victims never get to undo what happened to them.

God Bless

kelvinf · #66 Jul 7, '12, 12:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Sounds charitable to the law abiding people.

Hmmm, I found that post very disturbing to say the least.

kelvinf · #67 Jul 7, '12, 1:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilop

I disagree with this. If you are depraved enough to be committing rape or murder as a teenager, you are 99.999% irredeemable, a true sociopath.

The best we can do is protect society from them. Treat them as you would a mad dog. Execution or life imprisonment.

Like the recent case where some 13-16 y.o. males raped two girls who were around 11. Those kids should never set foot outside of an institution again.

Quite frankly, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt that 5% of them might change. Their victims never get to undo what happened to them.

God Bless

Of course you can disgree. The important thing here is that, it has been ruled that such a practice is inhumane and illegal. A secular court does not need to tell us Christians this.

Reducing human beings, children, to the level of animals is very unchristian, for crying out loud! Some of these kids are victims of abuse, broken families and the like. And even mere incarceration--which is geared at preventing a reoccurrence--does not solve the problem.

As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.

So if you believe in treating sinners, created in the image and likeness of God, like mad dogs, just keep in mind the consequences.

gamewell45 · #68 Jul 7, '12, 8:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevegravy

Which part?

Almost the entire post to be honest with you.

gamewell45 · #69 Jul 7, '12, 8:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Rational? You presented irrational hypothetical situations (could consider a paint ball gun a firearm

) not based on any facts.

This is precisely why we have to agree to disagree on this thread. I think no matter how much we debate, neither of us will be able to either agree or make our points clear to each other.

gamewell45 · #70 Jul 7, '12, 8:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Sounds charitable to the law abiding people.

Well, I've never been arrested and it doesn't sound very charitable to me. I realize we are all entitled to our opinions; just that we don't always agree on each others.