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  #16  
Old Jun 18, '12, 10:01 am
vz71 vz71 is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
I agree. It's incredible that people somehow have woken up to a decades-old policy because of a picture!
Not really.

Consider the number of conversions to the Catholic faith that site something small and insignificant as the catalyst.

A picture brings the point home to many.
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  #17  
Old Jun 18, '12, 10:58 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
Forced abortions have been going on in China for decades - Obama has been president for less than 4 years. What, we couldn't find our moral compass without him in the WH?
Obama has one of the most influential platforms in the world to stand up for human rights.
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  #18  
Old Jun 18, '12, 11:44 am
seekerz seekerz is online now
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by _Abyssinia View Post
Obama has one of the most influential platforms in the world to stand up for human rights.
And no one had it BEFORE him? What of the international platform WE have as Catholics, as Americans, as mothers, as women, as an electorate...? Did none of that exist before Obama's election?
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From the age of pharaohs through myriad mutations of the enduring human inclination to oppress and exclude through unjust remuneration, the basic justification has remained unchanged. It is the fear, affected or real, propounded by countless leaders, scholars, and statesman, that extending justice to all, will lead to national impoverishment and decline. Cyclical retelling of the Exodus story among people of faith serves to celebrate the role of God's saving justice in the human cycle of oppression and redemption. It also serves as an admonition to be on the right side of this story in every age and time.
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  #19  
Old Jun 18, '12, 12:10 pm
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
And no one had it BEFORE him? What of the international platform WE have as Catholics, as Americans, as mothers, as women, as an electorate...? Did none of that exist before Obama's election?
It does not have to be either or. Obama could speak out and so can others.
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  #20  
Old Jun 18, '12, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
And no one had it BEFORE him? What of the international platform WE have as Catholics, as Americans, as mothers, as women, as an electorate...? Did none of that exist before Obama's election?
Bush Administration Continues to Deny Funding UNFPA Continues to Support China's Crimes against Humanity

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2005/NRL10/ChinaCrimes.html


Obama restored the funding-on his second day in office
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  #21  
Old Jun 18, '12, 1:21 pm
seekerz seekerz is online now
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
Bush Administration Continues to Deny Funding UNFPA Continues to Support China's Crimes against Humanity

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2005/NRL10/ChinaCrimes.html


Obama restored the funding-on his second day in office
UNFPA funding that may or may not be used to force abortion on women in China vs trade benefits that enrich and support a government that quite certainly enforces a one-child (sometimes, 2) policy with an iron hand? The comparison is so disproportionate it would be funny - if it wasn't such a serious topic.

The more salient topic is, why depend on government to speak at all? What of the power of the consumer/ordinary citizen/person of faith/business owner? Should we now awake from sleep to blame politicians?
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From the age of pharaohs through myriad mutations of the enduring human inclination to oppress and exclude through unjust remuneration, the basic justification has remained unchanged. It is the fear, affected or real, propounded by countless leaders, scholars, and statesman, that extending justice to all, will lead to national impoverishment and decline. Cyclical retelling of the Exodus story among people of faith serves to celebrate the role of God's saving justice in the human cycle of oppression and redemption. It also serves as an admonition to be on the right side of this story in every age and time.
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  #22  
Old Jun 18, '12, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
UNFPA funding that may or may not be used to force abortion on women in China vs trade benefits that enrich and support a government that quite certainly enforces a one-child (sometimes, 2) policy with an iron hand? The comparison is so disproportionate it would be funny - if it wasn't such a serious topic.

The more salient topic is, why depend on government to speak at all? What of the power of the consumer/ordinary citizen/person of faith/business owner? Should we now awake from sleep to blame politicians?

Bush cut off the funding-Obama restored it. Romeny has vowed to cut it off again.
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  #23  
Old Jun 18, '12, 2:10 pm
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post

The more salient topic is, why depend on government to speak at all? What of the power of the consumer/ordinary citizen/person of faith/business owner? Should we now awake from sleep to blame politicians?
On the one hand, you think it's government's job to provide health care for the entire country.

On the other hand you think we shouldn't rely on government to speak out for human rights.

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  #24  
Old Jun 18, '12, 2:11 pm
vz71 vz71 is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
Bush cut off the funding-Obama restored it. Romeny has vowed to cut it off again.
Thank you.
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  #25  
Old Jun 18, '12, 3:00 pm
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colmywaykurtz colmywaykurtz is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by CatholicBoy1957 View Post
‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

by Kathleen Gilbert

Thu Jun 14, 2012 15:08 EST
Comments (27)






http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/oba...china-photo-up
If he did, his political opponents wouldn't believe him anyway. So why do they consider it a big deal for him to not publicly condemn this?
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  #26  
Old Jun 18, '12, 3:41 pm
CatholicBoy1957 CatholicBoy1957 is offline
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by colmywaykurtz View Post
If he did, his political opponents wouldn't believe him anyway. So why do they consider it a big deal for him to not publicly condemn this?
Because we are calling him out on it. Yes, we know he can't condemn China on this policy, but then he claims to be pro-choice, which, of course, faithful Catholics can recognize as being a lie. He is as pro-abortion as it gets, and not in the least pro-choice, and surely not pro-life, except possibly in the case of life which is not innocent.

This is a useful tool for those who have neither yet made their decision for God, or against, and lurk here on CAF, seeking truth in earnest. Those who are here claiming to be seeking truth, but never seem to find it, well, they've likely made their choice. Pearls, swine, holy, dogs.
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  #27  
Old Jun 18, '12, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by colmywaykurtz View Post
If he did, his political opponents wouldn't believe him anyway. So why do they consider it a big deal for him to not publicly condemn this?
Because that is what leaders do. of course he had time to call Sandra Fluck and publicly announce his support for her after a radio talk show host called her a slut but no time to publicly comment on this outrage. But lets be honest here-this is a man voted for infanticide when he was a State senator and just opposed a bill banning sex selection abortions. That he would be more concerned about what a radio a radio host says than a child being forcibly ripped pout of their Mothers womb should surprise no one.
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We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice.

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  #28  
Old Jun 18, '12, 7:25 pm
seekerz seekerz is online now
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by qui est ce View Post
On the one hand, you think it's government's job to provide health care for the entire country.

On the other hand you think we shouldn't rely on government to speak out for human rights.

Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth. I simply questioned why today's government was being blamed when these things have been happening for decades.

Of course government has to speak out for human rights everywhere, but it might make more sense if they actually DO something that makes a real difference.

Unfortunately, due to lack of pressure (public and government) at a time when it might have made a difference, we are - as a nation - firmly beholden to China and token gestures (such as not funding the UNDP) are pointless.

I remember reading about saline being injected into the soft spot of Chinese babies (if memory serves me well, the publication was Reader's Digest), when I was in elementary school (as was POTUS). So putting the onus on him now, just strikes me as kind of....
__________________
From the age of pharaohs through myriad mutations of the enduring human inclination to oppress and exclude through unjust remuneration, the basic justification has remained unchanged. It is the fear, affected or real, propounded by countless leaders, scholars, and statesman, that extending justice to all, will lead to national impoverishment and decline. Cyclical retelling of the Exodus story among people of faith serves to celebrate the role of God's saving justice in the human cycle of oppression and redemption. It also serves as an admonition to be on the right side of this story in every age and time.
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  #29  
Old Jun 19, '12, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
.

Of course government has to speak out for human rights everywhere, but it might make more sense if they actually DO something that makes a real difference.
Something Obama still hasn't done
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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
Unfortunately, due to lack of pressure (public and government) at a time when it might have made a difference, we are - as a nation - firmly beholden to China and token gestures (such as not funding the UNDP) are pointless.
No it is not. It makes a statement.
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Originally Posted by seekerz View Post
So putting the onus on him now, just strikes me as kind of....
I don't think we are blaming Obama that the Chinese are aborting 7 month old fetuses. We are asking him to speak up. He hasn't
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  #30  
Old Jun 20, '12, 12:21 pm
seekerz seekerz is online now
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Default Re: ‘Obama, condemn forced abortion!’ challenges pro-life group amid China photo uproar

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Originally Posted by qui est ce View Post
Something Obama still hasn't done
No it is not. It makes a statement.
I don't think we are blaming Obama that the Chinese are aborting 7 month old fetuses. We are asking him to speak up. He hasn't
Oh, so it's okay to get in bed with a horribly repressive government and get indebted to them. What is not okay is failing to say, "Hey, you, I'll take a penny from your petty cash if you don't stop what you're doing right this minute"?

Yeah, I get it..finally.
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From the age of pharaohs through myriad mutations of the enduring human inclination to oppress and exclude through unjust remuneration, the basic justification has remained unchanged. It is the fear, affected or real, propounded by countless leaders, scholars, and statesman, that extending justice to all, will lead to national impoverishment and decline. Cyclical retelling of the Exodus story among people of faith serves to celebrate the role of God's saving justice in the human cycle of oppression and redemption. It also serves as an admonition to be on the right side of this story in every age and time.
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