"Christianity is not one-size-fits-all"

Hubertus · #1 Jun 18, '12, 7:03 am

This might not be the right forum, but I'll give it a shot..

I was debating with my non-denominational Christian friend the other day. He helps his parents out with their cowboy church and together they go around starting up a lot of cowboy churches.

I was able to make some headway with him, but his main point that was preventing him from being convinced by much of the stuff I said was that the cowboy church format, in our southern area of the United States, is a lot more user friendly and can reach people where they're at. He mentioned a particular person he was close to who has a lot of problems.. He said, "That guy would never go to a Catholic Mass." But he said that the cowboy church format gave that guy a place to feel welcome and to encounter God.

So his point was basically that, even though the Catholic Church might have more truth to it, people aren't "one-size-fits-all" about their faith because people come from all walks of life, and therefore some of them need a different type of church service.

I don't agree with him.. But I'm not sure what to tell him?

empther · #2 Jun 18, '12, 7:14 am

I've watched a lot of televangelist programs over the years.

After a while you've seen and heard everything these guys have to say. It's the same thing over and over again.
How long can you continue to listen to the same message?
It's worth noting that Protestants have no problem drifting from one denomination to another, or from one non-denominational church to another where the message is what the independent pastor says it is.

Catholics can go to any Catholic Church and the message is Christ is spiritually and physically present in the Eucharist, and what the priest gives a sermon about and how the priest's personality pleases you or grates on your nerves doesn't matter. It's not the priest the people came to see. Often he's a 'fill in' and we don't even know his name. But, we know Who's on the altar.

ahs · #3 Jun 18, '12, 7:51 am

Your friend may have a point when it comes to initial outreach, but people must always be directed to, and taught, Truth. If a "cowboy church" is what will get certain people in the door, so be it. But that "cowboy church" isn't doing any favors by preaching a partial Truth. They are doing well to help the initial move toward Christ, but if they won't guide those souls toward the fullness of Truth, they are potentially doing more harm than good.

Christianity is what it is. Whether that fits into everyone's "preference box" is irrelevant. If a person won't worshpi God the way He wants to be worshipped, they aren't really worshipping God in the first place.

TheDoors · #4 Jun 18, '12, 8:58 am

The issue that I have had with many protestant churches (I came to faith in a southern baptist church) is that while perfect for new converts, they tend to do very little to build up the faith of the believer. Where a spiritual "child" will be content to sup on the "milk" of their message, they lack the "meat" that a growing Christian needs to sustain their faith on the long spiritual walk.

I also like to point out the lack of accountability in many Protestant (especially non-denominational) churches. Without a clear hierarchy, what is to stop them from becoming nothing more than cults of personality, ala the Westboro Baptist Church? Who is to keep them from heresy or blasphemy? Who is there to watch for signs of clerical abuse?

**edwest2** · #5 Jun 18, '12, 9:09 am

I don't know that the Church rejects all other forms of Christianity. I have heard at least one priest on Catholic Radio comment that different Christian denominations have part of the Truth, and yes, that they should be Catholic, but accepting Jesus Christ followed by water Baptism and learning the Gospel is a good first step. Of course, it would be nice if all the other denominations folded into the Catholic Church, such as some Anglicans are doing.

Peace,
Ed

**JRKH** · #6 Jun 18, '12, 9:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahs

Your friend may have a point when it comes to initial outreach, but people must always be directed to, and taught, Truth. If a "cowboy church" is what will get certain people in the door, so be it. But that "cowboy church" isn't doing any favors by preaching a partial Truth. They are doing well to help the initial move toward Christ, but if they won't guide those souls toward the fullness of Truth, they are potentially doing more harm than good.

Christianity is what it is. Whether that fits into everyone's "preference box" is irrelevant. If a person won't worship God the way He wants to be worshiped, they aren't really worshiping God in the first place.

What he said....

It's fine that a person first encountering God and Christ need something more relaxed and laid back than the Mass...I have no problem with that. But such encounters and teaching and interactions and worship should be seen as a "catechetical" step toward the Church and not the beginning and end of it.

Tell your friend that the idea is a good one...So long as what they are teaching is in line with Catholic teachings (aka "Fullness of Truth") and is geared toward edging these folks toward full communion with Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist in the mass.

Peace
James

**edwest2** · #7 Jun 18, '12, 9:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoors

The issue that I have had with many protestant churches (I came to faith in a southern baptist church) is that while perfect for new converts, they tend to do very little to build up the faith of the believer. Where a spiritual "child" will be content to sup on the "milk" of their message, they lack the "meat" that a growing Christian needs to sustain their faith on the long spiritual walk.

I also like to point out the lack of accountability in many Protestant (especially non-denominational) churches. Without a clear hierarchy, what is to stop them from becoming nothing more than cults of personality, ala the Westboro Baptist Church? Who is to keep them from heresy or blasphemy? Who is there to watch for signs of clerical abuse?

Point taken, but, for a while, people were very much going "Church shopping" for various reasons. Take the Anglicans. Why are some becoming Catholic?

Peace,
Ed

TheDoors · #8 Jun 19, '12, 5:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwest2

Point taken, but, for a while, people were very much going "Church shopping" for various reasons. Take the Anglicans. Why are some becoming Catholic?

Peace,
Ed

Nice to see you Ed, you're one of the folks that I'm starting to recognise. Guess I'm a regular!

Most of the Anglicans that I've spoken to are coming home because of the very liberal swing that their church is taking. I hope that their addition to our communion will grant us the gift of conservatism in our own church. I worry sometimes when I see liturgical dancers. Not in any church that I attend, mind you...

**edwest2** · #9 Jun 19, '12, 9:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoors

Nice to see you Ed, you're one of the folks that I'm starting to recognise. Guess I'm a regular!

Most of the Anglicans that I've spoken to are coming home because of the very liberal swing that their church is taking. I hope that their addition to our communion will grant us the gift of conservatism in our own church. I worry sometimes when I see liturgical dancers. Not in any church that I attend, mind you...

And nice to see you.

Try not to worry. Whenever anyone notices anything odd at Church, think about how you would politely ask your priest about this. Then, if you get a response that is neutral or not in conformance with the sacredness and dignity of the Mass, then contact your local Bishop or Archbishop.

Peace,
Ed

**Holly3278** · #10 Jun 19, '12, 10:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRKH

What he said....

It's fine that a person first encountering God and Christ need something more relaxed and laid back than the Mass...I have no problem with that. But such encounters and teaching and interactions and worship should be seen as a "catechetical" step toward the Church and not the beginning and end of it.

Tell your friend that the idea is a good one...So long as what they are teaching is in line with Catholic teachings (aka "Fullness of Truth") and is geared toward edging these folks toward full communion with Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist in the mass.

Peace
James

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that these churches are teaching things in line with what the Catholic Church teaches. More than likely they teach the false doctrines of sola scriptura and sola fide.

Hubertus · #11 Jun 19, '12, 11:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that these churches are teaching things in line with what the Catholic Church teaches. More than likely they teach the false doctrines of sola scriptura and sola fide.

You are correct. I guess for it to actually work they would have to be Catholic "cowboy missionaries" who reached out to folks and taught them about the necessity and universality of the Church, and encouraged them to convert and/or attend Mass on Sundays.

I suppose this is the more ideal situation that I should present to my friend. And I should mention, as TheDoors said, that while they may present part of the Truth (about Christ dying for our sins and other general things), they do not provide a full "diet" for us to grow in our spiritual life.

**Holly3278** · #12 Jun 19, '12, 12:25 pm

There is a reason why the Church is called Catholic. Catholic means universal. So actually, Catholic Christianity is a "one-size-fits-all" Church. That's just my own personal belief though and I could be wrong. If I am, I would appreciate it if someone would correct me. I do not like having incorrect theological beliefs.

**JRKH** · #13 Jun 19, '12, 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that these churches are teaching things in line with what the Catholic Church teaches. More than likely they teach the false doctrines of sola scriptura and sola fide.

Yes - In trying to help the OP to further the conversation, I was proposing that such assemblies could be seen as a very good outreach program....IF they were in communion with the Church in their teachings...Which as you say (and Hubertus confirms below) they are not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubertus

You are correct. I guess for it to actually work they would have to be Catholic "cowboy missionaries" who reached out to folks and taught them about the necessity and universality of the Church, and encouraged them to convert and/or attend Mass on Sundays.

I suppose this is the more ideal situation that I should present to my friend. And I should mention, as TheDoors said, that while they may present part of the Truth (about Christ dying for our sins and other general things), they do not provide a full "diet" for us to grow in our spiritual life.

Amen...
I would suggest that if your friend thinks that the Catholic Church is just "one size" he needs to take a closer look. There is so much in the Church, so many forms of spirituality, worship, richness in prayer life and vocations, depth of history and spiritual understanding that no one person could ever absorb it all.

Of course I guess we could say the Church is "one size"....HUGE...

Peace
James

**JRKH** · #14 Jun 19, '12, 12:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly3278

There is a reason why the Church is called Catholic. Catholic means universal. So actually, Catholic Christianity is a "one-size-fits-all" Church. That's just my own personal belief though and I could be wrong. If I am, I would appreciate it if someone would correct me. I do not like having incorrect theological beliefs.

The "one size fit's all" phrase is really not that applicable. As I mention above...there is so much contained within the Church that each person can "tailor fit" a spiritual life within her bodacious boundaries.

Peace
James

Seeker1961 · #15 Jun 19, '12, 5:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoors

The issue that I have had with many protestant churches (I came to faith in a southern baptist church) is that while perfect for new converts, they tend to do very little to build up the faith of the believer. Where a spiritual "child" will be content to sup on the "milk" of their message, they lack the "meat" that a growing Christian needs to sustain their faith on the long spiritual walk.

I also like to point out the lack of accountability in many Protestant (especially non-denominational) churches. Without a clear hierarchy, what is to stop them from becoming nothing more than cults of personality, ala the Westboro Baptist Church? Who is to keep them from heresy or blasphemy? Who is there to watch for signs of clerical abuse?

This was my recent experience. I stayed away from the Church for nearly 5 years after I moved from NJ. The parish I attended when I moved was what I call an "obligation parish". People went because it's what you're supposed to do and the Pastor was more interested in who his flock was voting for than teaching them Who is on the altar. You could tell by the indifferent behavior during the Consecration and Communion that these people had no idea of the majesty of what they were receiving. If the homily wasn't about polticians, it was about the latest movie or tv show, and I never got the feeling that Jesus was the primary focus of anyone in the building. It was a nice club full of nice people, but that's all it was.

. One weekend a friend invited me to her non-denominational church and I went. And for a while, I liked it. The sermons were ALL about the Bible. Sure, the Pastor might use a pop culture reference, but it was always to illustrate a Biblical truth. Now, I knew it was wrong, all those years of Catholic education firmly convinced me that I should not be doing what I was doing-but I was deeper in the Bible than I had been since I got out of school-reading it everyday and praying. I prayed that God would understand why I wasn't going to Mass and forgive me. I lasted the until they started a study on the Gospel of John and from the first week when we read Chapter One I knew I had to go back to the Church. It just didn't last without the Eucharist. It had it's use at the time, but it's not going to take you beyond the beginning stages. Eventually you long for something more real.