To what degree is the Vatican and EWTN negatively affected by secularism?

[Robert Sock]

It seems to me that secularism has infected the Catholic Church. It's true that the Church needs to preach to those in the secular world, but in doing so risks getting 'dirty' with the thinking of the secular world. The only safe place for the holy is a monastery.

Fighting abortion and euthanasia are certainly noble causes, but in fighting people lose sight of the main purpose of th Catholic Church: To preach the Gospels to the godless people in the secular world. People need to repent and be saved. Once saved, the problem of abortion will disappear.

[bscastro]

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

God bless,
Bryan

[Spencerian]

The Church is a hospital of sinners, not a hotel for saints.

We cannot and should not try to isolate ourselves from those who are too worldly. Else, we lose sight of the reason they are worldly and forget why we co-exist with these people to help them see what exists beyond. You create a false dichotomy.

Unlike the Olympian and Hindu myths, God did not keep Himself separate from us. He joined us, become one of us. Lived and died with us. Showed us how to fight without fighting. How to live without living it up. How to die without dying.

We, the Church, cannot fight back sin but not becoming part of the fight itself. Yet, Christ's teachings aid us in not becoming the monsters we fight.

[Robert Sock]

Originally Posted by Spencerian

The Church is a hospital of sinners, not a hotel for saints.

We cannot and should not try to isolate ourselves from those who are too worldly. Else, we lose sight of the reason they are worldly and forget why we co-exist with these people to help them see what exists beyond. You create a false dichotomy.

Unlike the Olympian and Hindu myths, God did not keep Himself separate from us. He joined us, become one of us. Lived and died with us. Showed us how to fight without fighting. How to live without living it up. How to die without dying.

We, the Church, cannot fight back sin but not becoming part of the fight itself. Yet, Christ's teachings aid us in not becoming the monsters we fight.

I agree wholeheartedly that most of us should not isolate ourselves from the secular world (monks and hermits the exception). However, I still believe that to truly evangelize, one is necessarily affected by secularism to larger or lessor degree. Like the Pope, I believe that weekly sermons are not as effective as they should be.

[onenow1]

As the Pope said of the recent problem with his valet,[ he is not worried its in God's hands].

[ByzCathCantor]

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

The only safe place for the holy is a monastery.

Don't be so sure!

[Neofight]

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

Don't be so sure!

You are correct!

Anywhere on earth, the best the holy can hope for is persecution...the only safe place for the holy is heaven!

Pax

[hullchelle]

Originally Posted by Spencerian

[b]The Church is a hospital of sinners, not a hotel for saints.[/

Unlike the Olympian and Hindu myths, God did not keep Himself separate from us. He joined us, become one of us. Lived and died with us. Showed us how to fight without fighting. How to live without living it up. How to die without dying.

We, the Church, cannot fight back sin but not becoming part of the fight itself. Yet, Christ's teachings aid us in not becoming the monsters we fight.

Very well said, yes Jesus expressed and led by "perfect" example; walk with, talk with, and teach with "love" for the sinner. We are the Christian Soldier and the Bible or Word our Armor "I shall fear no evil"! However, "Yes" we must beware of not becoming more worldly or sinful due this exposure, as at times, worldly acts often are glamorized...

I try to remind myself often of the high rate of depression, overdose, & unhappiness of the rich and famous! As one who has a degree in psychology, & who has then spent a few years reading stats within the mental health field of study here in the U.S. the rich actually have the highest rate of depression in the U.S. Why? What r the famous & rich missing?

Well they have all material needs met, they feed on delicacies everyday, they have the most wonderful shelter & clothing; the only needs left in the "Hierarchy of Needs" is Minding (a distinct type of hobby), Love relationship (a real one, not a lust filled or unfaithful one, & def. not a sinful live-in semi-commitment) as we see so often today these live-ins. But, Most importantly (I believe) found within the top of the individual's needs is Spirituality. The rich and famous just have a hole in their soul, Jesus and the Eucharist, is missing.

[hullchelle]

Originally Posted by Robert Sock

It seems to me that secularism has infected the Catholic Church. It's true that the Church needs to preach to those in the secular world, but in doing so risks getting 'dirty' with the thinking of the secular world. The only safe place for the holy is a monastery.

Fighting abortion and euthanasia are certainly noble causes, but in fighting people lose sight of the main purpose of th Catholic Church: To preach the Gospels to the godless people in the secular world. People need to repent and be saved. Once saved, the problem of abortion will disappear.

I'm confused, are U saying "once saved, always saved" therefore, a person won't commit sinful acts once saved. A "Saved" individual won't be sent to Hell or Purgatory... Once saved a woman won't be tempted or won't commit adultery and/or won't have an abortion?

Also, I wish u to expand on why u feel the "Pope's Weekly" sermons are not as effective? Why, or why not are they less effective? Have they never been effective or weekly is too often, etc.? what's wrong with the Pope?

Thank you ahead for expanding on your comments to clarify for us Dizzy Red Heads, LOL!

[triumphguy]

I said none, because Christ promised Peter that "The gates of Hell will never prevail against it."

The rest we deal with.

[Robert Sock]

Originally Posted by hullchelle

I'm confused, are U saying "once saved, always saved" therefore, a person won't commit sinful acts once saved. A "Saved" individual won't be sent to Hell or Purgatory... Once saved a woman won't be tempted or won't commit adultery and/or won't have an abortion?

Also, I wish u to expand on why u feel the "Pope's Weekly" sermons are not as effective? Why, or why not are they less effective? Have they never been effective or weekly is too often, etc.? what's wrong with the Pope?

Thank you ahead for expanding on your comments to clarify for us Dizzy Red Heads, LOL!

No, I do not say that once saved always saved.

It's not the Pope's weekly sermon that is lacking, but the sermons in the Church as a whole. This was something that was addressed by the Pope.

[Swiss Guy]

Originally Posted by triumphguy

I said none, because Christ promised Peter that "The gates of Hell will never prevail against it."

The rest we deal with.

[Semper Zelare]

I voted "moderately". If you don't believe that secularism has made inroads into the Catholic Church... then just watch a video... most likely any video will do, from Michael Voris.

If there are priests who dissent, or nuns who dissent from Church teaching that doesn't suddenly make them not part of the Catholic Church. These people are part of the Catholic Church, and they along with millions of lay people have all been affected by secularism.

Here's 2 recent examples of what I'm talking about from Michael Voris btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-CQ...8&feature=plcp [May 29th]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Lqs...6&feature=plcp [May 30th]

[Robert Sock]

Originally Posted by triumphguy

I said none, because Christ promised Peter that "The gates of Hell will never prevail against it."

The rest we deal with.

Apples and oranges: The Church could be extremely affected by secularism but not at risk of having the gates of hell prevail against it.