Grave sin? - Imagining holding/cuddling

Verbena · #1 Jun 12, '12, 8:58 am

Is it a mortal sin to purposefully imagine lying close/holding/cuddling someone? Or to imagine kissing? Even if the thoughts are emotional rather than sexual? At the very least, it seems like deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin for worse lustful thoughts. Is this a grave matter?

Gift from God · #2 Jun 12, '12, 9:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verbena

Is it a mortal sin to purposefully imagine lying close/holding/cuddling someone? Or to imagine kissing? Even if the thoughts are emotional rather than sexual? At the very least, it seems like deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin for worse lustful thoughts. Is this a grave matter?

None of what you described are even sins, so it wouldn't even be sinful to imagine it

Verbena · #3 Jun 12, '12, 10:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift from God

None of what you described are even sins, so it wouldn't even be sinful to imagine it

Those things would be sinful if between the unmarried, because it would be deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin. I know that adultery can be committed in the heart, and so this seems like putting oneself in the occasion of sin in a similar way.

Gift from God · #4 Jun 12, '12, 10:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verbena

Those things would be sinful if between the unmarried, because it would be deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin. I know that adultery can be committed in the heart, and so this seems like putting oneself in the occasion of sin in a similar way.

No they're not. Kissing someone has never been a sin and holding someone is not sinful in the slightest

Dakota Roberts · #5 Jun 12, '12, 10:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verbena

Those things would be sinful if between the unmarried, because it would be deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin. I know that adultery can be committed in the heart, and so this seems like putting oneself in the occasion of sin in a similar way.

Clearly we should stone those two men because they are putting themselves in the occasion of sin...

BcuzISaidSo · #6 Jun 12, '12, 10:41 am

Depends on the circumstances. Now wait, before you flame me...it WOULD be sinful if you were married and having these thoughts about someone other than your spouse. Maybe you can't help the attraction, but allowing yourself to fantasize, even in a seemingly benign manner, in such a case would be sinful.

Same as if a woman were having thoughts about a married man, or priest, for example.

Aelred Minor · #7 Jun 12, '12, 10:53 am

What you describe I would consider a particular kind of lustful fantasy, even though the "lust" is of a different variety than what the term usually denotes.

He Man · #8 Jun 12, '12, 1:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verbena

Is it a mortal sin to purposefully imagine lying close/holding/cuddling someone? Or to imagine kissing? Even if the thoughts are emotional rather than sexual? At the very least, it seems like deliberately putting oneself in the occasion of sin for worse lustful thoughts. Is this a grave matter?

Depends. Is this special someone a stuffed bear?

OrangeOwl · #9 Jun 12, '12, 1:21 pm

Now that actually brings forth a curious question. We all know that imagining that you are committing a sin is the same as actually committing it. So, if you imagine that you are in the near occassion of sin but you are not imagining the actual sin, is that the same being as deliberately placing yourself in the near occassion of sin?

I think that might be what the OP is really asking.

So does that mean the actual wishing of being able to commit an objectively innocent action (but not actually going through with it because it would cause you to commit a mortal sin) would be a mortal sin anyway?

These questions aren't that easy to understand, are they? Sigh.

**Bookcat** · #10 Jun 12, '12, 1:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift from God

No they're not. Kissing someone has never been a sin and holding someone is not sinful in the slightest

Such would not be correct...all depends on what is meant.

**Bookcat** · #11 Jun 12, '12, 1:30 pm

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/dating.htm from a writer at the EWTN Theology dept...it will be of great help in terms of dating etc

(One note though on this reading...I would note that when they say "as soon as he begins to enjoy.." under "pure intent"... it would mean before knowing consent...)